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crank01
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wink.gif posted on 5-1-2011 at 19:34
Armstrongs mix magic trick


I want to know what these chemical compounds are for a magic trick but the price he's selling it for is way to high and was wondering if any one from this forum could help me I would be really thankful :D btw someone told me its RP and PP i dont know if that means (red powder) and (photo flash powder)?
Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwahlADEt9E :P

[Edited on 6-1-2011 by crank01]

[Edited on 6-1-2011 by crank01]

[Edited on 6-1-2011 by vulture]
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[*] posted on 5-1-2011 at 19:45


Who, what, why?

????As they say around these parts, WHUTT????

O3




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[*] posted on 5-1-2011 at 19:59
wow lol


Oh sorry lol I forgot to put down the link wow. Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwahlADEt9E
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[*] posted on 5-1-2011 at 20:12


Looks like a binary explosive aka flash powder one that is very easily set off and something I wouldn't want on my hands, also could be like band snaps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bang_snaps




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[*] posted on 5-1-2011 at 20:12


I strongly suspect the white powder is finely ground potassium chlorate and the red powder is finely ground red phosphorus. The mixture is a very sensitive primary explosive mixture known as Armstrong's mixture. Red phosphorus is a DEA List 1 chemical due to its use in the manufacture of methamphetamine, as such it will be rather difficult to obtain. This mixture is very powerful and very sensitive. Be careful.



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[*] posted on 5-1-2011 at 20:21


r p has got to be red phosphorus because he mentioned rubbing or friction as in match striker and p p would probably be a perchlorate. a chlorate probably wont pop but it will burn. Rogeryermaw could tell you how to make it.
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[*] posted on 5-1-2011 at 20:22


Thank you everyone, yeah I hope your right about the white potassium chlorite and the red phosphorous because I wouldn't want to blow UP my hand doing something to put the audience in aww. lol but if you do think these are the compounds, I'll start looking into finding them. The man in the video sells it but way to much for a tiny vial of the 2, but wont give out what they are.

[Edited on 6-1-2011 by crank01]
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[*] posted on 5-1-2011 at 20:30


Your name is crank and the stuff is used for making meth thats ironic.



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[*] posted on 5-1-2011 at 20:34


crank as in crankshaft, n old xbox gamertag
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[*] posted on 6-1-2011 at 06:40


Quote: Originally posted by crank01  
I want to know what these chemical compounds are for a magic trick but the price he's selling it for is way to high and was wondering if any one from this forum could help me I would be really thankful :D btw someone told me its RP and PP i dont know if that means (red powder) and (photo flash powder)?




Sure it do be potassium chlorate (white powder) red phosphorus
(brick red) commonly called Armstong's Mixture after Sir William
Armstrong. I have written 3-articles bout it for American Fireworks
News a few years back. And he is correct
you do not want to mix the two together. If'n I can find it
on the morrow I have
some info on this trick I'll scan it if I wake up tomorrow.

[Edited on 6-1-2011 by The WiZard is In]
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[*] posted on 6-1-2011 at 07:18


Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In  
Quote: Originally posted by crank01  
I want to know what these chemical compounds are for a magic trick but the price he's selling it for is way to high and was wondering if any one from this forum could help me I would be really thankful :D btw someone told me its RP and PP i dont know if that means (red powder) and (photo flash powder)?




Sure it do be potassium chlorate (white powder) red phosphorus
(brick red) commonly called Armstong's Mixture after Sir William
Armstrong. I have written 3-articles bout it for American Fireworks
News a few years back. And he is correct
you do not want to mix the two together. If'n I can find it
on the morrow I have
some info on this trick I'll scan it if I wake up tomorrow.

[Edited on 6-1-2011 by The WiZard is In]



Be finding not what I want - I will take my snow shovel out
latter and see if I can find my issues of the Special F/X News
Journal
for which I was an occasional contributor.

I have found —

How to Make Flash, Bangs and Puffs of Smoke by Micky Hades
Edited by Mark Steele
Hades Publications 1988

THE DEVILS WHISPER

The Devil's Whisper is a flash and explosion at the end of the
finger tips that leave the magician with no gimmicks to get
rid of. It was used in magic shows about 1907 and became
extremely well know to magicians of that era but is now
almost unknown to today's performers.

The effect employs a highly explosive chemical compound which
was exploded on the bare skin of the finger tips according to
the original presentation. Later improved versions suggested
that the chemical be wrapped in small paper.

This chapter contains the original method as well as a number
of variations. All of which are extremely dangerous.
—Which is why I am not willing to scan the rest of this. /djh/.
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[*] posted on 6-1-2011 at 08:37


Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In  
Quote: Originally posted by crank01  
I want to know what these chemical compounds are for a magic trick but the price he's selling it for is way to high and was wondering if any one from this forum could help me I would be really thankful :D btw someone told me its RP and PP i dont know if that means (red powder) and (photo flash powder)?




Sure it do be potassium chlorate (white powder) red phosphorus
(brick red) commonly called Armstong's Mixture after Sir William
Armstrong. I have written 3-articles bout it for American Fireworks
News a few years back. And he is correct
you do not want to mix the two together. If'n I can find it
on the morrow I have some info on this trick I'll scan it if I wake up tomorrow.


Still cannot find what I am looking for, however, by looking for
something else I have found my copies of the Special F/X
News Journal. The attached from # 17, May/June 1990.

There is a variation on this in issue 18 using toy caps which I
do not consider safe, therefore, I will not scan it.

The Special F/X New Journal ran from issue 1 September/October
1987 to issue 18, July/August 1990.

You can buy a collection of all the issues from —

http://www.fireworksnews.com/product/1003/2

Finger-tip-explosion.jpg - 481kB

[Edited on 6-1-2011 by The WiZard is In]
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[*] posted on 6-1-2011 at 09:10


Armstrong's mixture is reasonably safe in very small amounts.
I would guess that he is making about 10 - 50mg by crushing the material together on his finger tips.
Probably about as hazardous as lighting a match
Red phosphorous is available in small amounts in the UK without too much difficulty, as is potassium chlorate.
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[*] posted on 6-1-2011 at 09:59
Found it


the usual way ... by looking for something else!

Attachment: phpwccykb (145kB)
This file has been downloaded 1211 times Attachment: phpJZt5j8 (251kB)
This file has been downloaded 1181 times

[Edited on 6-1-2011 by The WiZard is In]
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[*] posted on 6-1-2011 at 12:42


Thankyou everyone the helping me solve what these compounds finally are. btw TheWizardIsIn I thought I was good with google but looks as tho I have a challenger lol, thx for finding me all of that. Thx Science Madness forum :)
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[*] posted on 6-1-2011 at 12:55


Next time, try to write "anyone" instead of "any 1". This isn't the 1337 xbox hacker club. Same goes for the rest of your writing.



One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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[*] posted on 6-1-2011 at 14:54


Quote: Originally posted by ScienceSquirrel  
Armstrong's mixture is reasonably safe in very small amounts.
I would guess that he is making about 10 - 50mg by crushing the material together on his finger tips.
Probably about as hazardous as lighting a match
Red phosphorous is available in small amounts in the UK without too much difficulty, as is potassium chlorate.




50mg's is pushing it. The legal in da US of A firecracker contains
50mg of K perchlorate/aluminium. It has been along time since
I had one go off in my hand did do any harm, hurt a bit... 50mg of
the much higher brisance [PLEASE pronounce the word
correctly, it is a French word and not pronounced the way an
English speaker would. Think; Fresnel - anxiety - solder -
isochronous - Oaxaca - &c.] Armstrong's mixture....!

Just touching you fingertips to the separate components will
keep the amount - pain to a minimum. If you start mixing them....
the possibility of an accident increases exponentially.


Donald Sisco, better known as Curt Saxon the author of
The Poor Mans James Bond had this to say in his book:

"The photograph shows a spatula which had been used to stir
a mixture of about 1/2 half ounce of potassium chlorate and a bit
of red phosphorus. The mixer was ignorant of the fact that these
chemicals together, stirred dry, will detonate spontaneously.

"The resulting blast kneaded the spatula out of shape. It atomized
the first 3/4 inch of the bone handle and split the rest. It shattered
the plastic mixing bottle.

"The fingers holding the bottle had the flesh blown off the
bones and the bare bones had to be amputated. The palm of the
hand was turned to hamburger and its inner bones were smashed.

"The hand holding the spatula was undamaged except for
particles of plastic bottle which pierced the skin."


djh
----
Thinking 'bout firecrackers, many-many
moons ago my friend and I discoverd
that the hole in a 78 record was just the
right size to insert a firecracker. One of us
would lite the fuse and the other launch it.

One day the local PD showed up .. someone
reported we were firing a .22. He collected the
firecracker that were obvious.

Have any more?

Well not counting the pile in the house and
a dozen or so packs in our back pockets.... No.

One day my friend and I standing the bank of
Lake Carmel throwing in Ash Cans (AKA Silver Salutes)
tied to rocks to explode underwater into the lake ....
The game warden shows up and collects our ordnance.

Over the years things have gotten more interesting...
the FBI tells me the Secret Service had made inquiries.

25-words or less .....Why Me Lord?


djh
-----
The] growing good of the world is partly dependent on
unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and
me as they might be is half owing to the number who
lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited graves.

"George Elliot" Middlemarch

Lord only knows I have tired too.


[Edited on 6-1-2011 by The WiZard is In]
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[*] posted on 6-1-2011 at 15:25


Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In  
Quote: Originally posted by ScienceSquirrel  
Armstrong's mixture is reasonably safe in very small amounts.
I would guess that he is making about 10 - 50mg by crushing the material together on his finger tips.
Probably about as hazardous as lighting a match
Red phosphorous is available in small amounts in the UK without too much difficulty, as is potassium chlorate.




50mg's is pushing it. The legal in da US of A firecracker contains
50mg of K perchlorate/aluminium. It has been along time since
I had one go off in my hand did do any harm, hurt a bit... 50mg of
the much higher brisance [PLEASE pronounce the word
correctly, it is a French word and not pronounced the way an
English speaker would. Think; Fresnel - anxiety - solder -
isochronous - Oaxaca - &c.] Armstrong's mixture....!

Just touching you fingertips to the separate components will
keep the amount - pain to a minimum. If you start mixing them....
the possibility of an accident increases exponentially.


Donald Sisco, better known as Curt Saxon the author of
The Poor Mans James Bond had this to say in his book:

"The photograph shows a spatula which had been used to stir
a mixture of about 1/2 half ounce of potassium chlorate and a bit
of red phosphorus. The mixer was ignorant of the fact that these
chemicals together, stirred dry, will detonate spontaneously.

"The resulting blast kneaded the spatula out of shape. It atomized
the first 3/4 inch of the bone handle and split the rest. It shattered
the plastic mixing bottle.

"The fingers holding the bottle had the flesh blown off the
bones and the bare bones had to be amputated. The palm of the
hand was turned to hamburger and its inner bones were smashed.

"The hand holding the spatula was undamaged except for
particles of plastic bottle which pierced the skin."


djh
----
Thinking 'bout firecrackers, many-many
moons ago my friend and I discoverd
that the hole in a 78 record was just the
right size to insert a firecracker. One of us
would lite the fuse and the other launch it.

One day the local PD showed up .. someone
reported we were firing a .22. He collected the
firecracker that were obvious.

Have any more?

Well not counting the pile in the house and
a dozen or so packs in our back pockets.... No.

One day my friend and I standing the bank of
Lake Carmel throwing in Ash Cans (AKA Silver Salutes)
tied to rocks to explode underwater into the lake ....
The game warden shows up and collects our ordnance.

Over the years things have gotten more interesting...
the FBI tells me the Secret Service had made inquiries.

25-words or less .....Why Me Lord?


djh
-----
The] growing good of the world is partly dependent on
unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and
me as they might be is half owing to the number who
lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited graves.

"George Elliot" Middlemarch

Lord only knows I have tired too.


[Edited on 6-1-2011 by The WiZard is In]


Je parle le français. J'ai une petite amie française.*

* I speak French. I have a French girlfriend.

You are mixing up 10 - 50mg with half an ounce which is 14g or 14,000 mg.
50mg is around the weight of a match head, it is not exactly a bomb!
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[*] posted on 6-1-2011 at 15:29


All I could think when reading the OP was that he was trying to make his fingers dissapear.:D.

Presto.... Chango...Poof!!!! Look Ma No Hands!





Knowledge is useless to useless people...

"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story before."~Maynard James Keenan
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[*] posted on 6-1-2011 at 17:07


Quote: Originally posted by ScienceSquirrel  


Je parle le français. J'ai une petite amie française.*

* I speak French. I have a French girlfriend.

You are mixing up 10 - 50mg with half an ounce which is 14g or 14,000 mg.

50mg is around the weight of a match head, it is not exactly a bomb!



Granted. However, people do be .. well people, and they ever tend
to go for bigger... heck nothing has happened .... so far.

50mg exploded in contact with you skin is going to leave a heck
of a hole.

Then there dobe the practical... weighing out enough Red p
and K chlorate to make 50mg.... ! It is lot easier to weigh out
enough to take .... 2-3-4-5 fingers off.


ELLERN
"One combination of two solids exists in which a flaming or even explosive reaction
may take place on merely pushing the powders toward each other or on exertion of very
light pressure. This reaction occurs when the powdered components are completely dry
and the fuel is not superficially oxidized. The two materials are red phosphorus and
potassium chlorate and a demonstration of their reactivity should be performed only with
a few milligrams of each component. When the phosphorus has been kept for some
time in an ordinary reagent bottle, the spontaneity of the reaction may not be so
obvious, but the final effect may be just as disastrous, as has been shown many times
when high school students have appropriated and mixed to tether the two chemicals.
[emphasis added]

"This reaction is undoubtedly the most fascinating, and perhaps theoretically the most
interesting, solid reaction. It has been ingeniously tamed in the modern safety match.

"Red phosphorus and chlorate can be mixed in comparative safety in the presence of a
liquid vehicle, provided both reactants are thoroughly moistened by the vehicle before
they come into contact. Using an aqueous binder solution, small dabs of such a mixture
form the explosive ingredients of toy caps.

"[The] phosphorus/chlorate/binder combination are at the borderline between
spontaneous reaction and manageable, easily initiated, but stable systems of reactive
fuels and oxidizers."

SHIMIZU
rates the sensitivity of "fundamental two component firework compositions" on a scale
from 1, to 5 the most sensitive. The combination of potassium chlorate and red
phosphorus rated 5; realgar and sulphur were rated 4; milk sugar 3; while aluminium
and charcoal were both rated 1.

DAVIS
"Toy caps are commonly made from red phosphorus and potassium chlorate, a
combination of the many with which the pyrotechnist has to deal. THEIR
PREPARATION OUGHT UNDER NO CONDITIONS TO BE ATTEMPTED BY AN
AMATEUR.

"Mixtures of potassium chlorate and red phosphorus explode from shock and from fire.
They do burn in an orderly fashion as do black powder and most other pyrotechnic compositions.


djh
----
The people of those foreign countries are very,
very ignorant. They looked curiously at the costumes
we had brought from the wilds of America. They
observed that we talked loudly at table sometimes.
They noticed that we looked out for expenses and
got what we conveniently could out of a Franc, and
wondered where in the mischief we came from. In
Paris they simply opened their eyes and stared
when we spoke to them in French! We never did
succeed in making them understand their own
language.

Mark Twain
20 November 1867



[Edited on 7-1-2011 by The WiZard is In]
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[*] posted on 6-1-2011 at 18:05


"50mg exploded in contact with you skin is going to leave a heck
of a hole."

No. 50mg is about the weight of a match head and it is not contained so it might give you a trivial burn at the most.

Then there dobe the practical... weighing out enough Red p
and K chlorate to make 50mg.... ! It is lot easier to weigh out
enough to take .... 2-3-4-5 fingers off.

You do not have to weigh the stuff out. One micro spatula tip load of red phosphorous, two micro spatula tip loads of potassium chlorate.
Mix with care.
Result; a few tens of mgs of Armstrong's mixture!


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[*] posted on 6-1-2011 at 18:14


Quote: Originally posted by ScienceSquirrel  
"50mg exploded in contact with you skin is going to leave a heck
of a hole."

No. 50mg is about the weight of a match head and it is not contained so it might give you a trivial burn at the most.



Armstrong's mixture does not burn it goes boom. Think toy caps.

Extracted from :—
Donald J Haarmann is The WiZ
American Fireworks News
#54 March 1986

Armstrong's mixture redux.

"Lasciate ogni speranza, voi chtentrate!"

Two letters have been received detailing their writers' experience with this mixture. I
have taken the liberty of editing them to protect the identities of the authors.

"In the mid 1950's, the local 5&10 cent stores were selling for 10¢ each, cap guns of tin
plated steel, somewhat thinner than the tinplate in good cans, embossed to look
somewhat like revolvers. All parts except the hinge or pivot pins and two springs were of
tin plate. No paint was applied.

"Caps were 1¢ a roll and had 50 shots per roll. They were narrower then common roll
caps. The tissue cover readily pulled off, once carefully started, revealing reddish lumps
(Armstrong's mixture?) about 20% the mass of common roll caps of the day. These
lumps could be scraped off using a razor blade or an Xacto knife and were considerably
more friction sensitive than the American black cap mixture.

"While watching late nite TV movies one summer, I amassed enough of this red mixture
to fill a Jetex fuse tin (about 3/4 or possibly 1 tablespoon) [of mixture]. It was then
ignited inside the tin via Jetex fuse through a hole in the lid. (Note minimal containment
of charge.)

"As an adult pyro, now with some considerable experience... it [was] absolutely THE
MOST POTENT MIX I've ever played with."
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[*] posted on 6-1-2011 at 18:30


Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In  
Quote: Originally posted by ScienceSquirrel  
"50mg exploded in contact with you skin is going to leave a heck
of a hole."

No. 50mg is about the weight of a match head and it is not contained so it might give you a trivial burn at the most.



Armstrong's mixture does not burn it goes boom. Think toy caps.

Extracted from :—
Donald J Haarmann is The WiZ
American Fireworks News
#54 March 1986

Armstrong's mixture redux.

"Lasciate ogni speranza, voi chtentrate!"

Two letters have been received detailing their writers' experience with this mixture. I
have taken the liberty of editing them to protect the identities of the authors.

"In the mid 1950's, the local 5&10 cent stores were selling for 10¢ each, cap guns of tin
plated steel, somewhat thinner than the tinplate in good cans, embossed to look
somewhat like revolvers. All parts except the hinge or pivot pins and two springs were of
tin plate. No paint was applied.

"Caps were 1¢ a roll and had 50 shots per roll. They were narrower then common roll
caps. The tissue cover readily pulled off, once carefully started, revealing reddish lumps
(Armstrong's mixture?) about 20% the mass of common roll caps of the day. These
lumps could be scraped off using a razor blade or an Xacto knife and were considerably
more friction sensitive than the American black cap mixture.

"While watching late nite TV movies one summer, I amassed enough of this red mixture
to fill a Jetex fuse tin (about 3/4 or possibly 1 tablespoon) [of mixture]. It was then
ignited inside the tin via Jetex fuse through a hole in the lid. (Note minimal containment
of charge.)

"As an adult pyro, now with some considerable experience... it [was] absolutely THE
MOST POTENT MIX I've ever played with."


Armstrong's mixture;

50mg, about the weight of a match head or a few toy caps.
Pretty harmless.

A tablespoon's worth, maybe 5 grams eg 5000 mg! Bloody dangerous.

Scaling a reaction up is not just about making it bigger. It can result in a completely different effect and most experienced chemists realise that!

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[*] posted on 6-1-2011 at 18:46


Toy caps can be made to ignite instead of pop.
Just scratch them with a pin or make a basic friction igniter from a couple of caps, matches, an emery nail board and some tape.

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[*] posted on 6-1-2011 at 20:13


Quote: Originally posted by ScienceSquirrel  
Toy caps can be made to ignite instead of pop.
Just scratch them with a pin or make a basic friction igniter from a couple of caps, matches, an emery nail board and some tape.


Granted. However, look at the snap produced by a few
mg on la U-Tube video. And that with no confinement.
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