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Author: Subject: Armstrongs mix magic trick
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[*] posted on 7-1-2011 at 03:13


ScienceSquirrel;

Try to ignite 50 mg of say lead azide on a piece of hard wood. It would blast a small crater. It would pierce a hole onto a coke can and it would leave a dent on a 1 mm copper sheet.

Have you ever had some primary exploding in your hand? Well I've had it. Don't ask me how, but I can assure you it hurts like dickens, and it was miligrams. The paper became schrapnel and it embeded in the skin like in the butter. Don't get me wrong, I'm still typing with all my fingers in place but I guess it's "good" to have such a visceral experience; this will certainly make one respect the explosives more. 50 miligrams of a primary going of on bare skin sounds terribly painfull to be, and this mixture can be treated more like a primary. It would actually work well if it wasn't that sensitive to be if any use.

I suggest you measuring 50 mg of the hottest flash; make it into a small cracker and blast it in your hand. Depending on the confinement/composition it may not pierce the skin but it will leave a bruise such as hit by a small hammer, with the included pain. Do the same with some of the the discussed compo and you'll get a small hole in the skin. If I didn't play with it I would not be entitled to speak but I did. This compo is much more powerful than flash.

Unfortunately I can't find a doc I have (had?) describing the brisance of this mixture, but it's safe to say it rivals some of the primaries and it's also got to be the fastest pyrotechnic mixture known. Think a flame sensitive "chedite" kinf of compo.
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[*] posted on 7-1-2011 at 06:13


Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In  
Quote: Originally posted by ScienceSquirrel  
Toy caps can be made to ignite instead of pop.
Just scratch them with a pin or make a basic friction igniter from a couple of caps, matches, an emery nail board and some tape.


Granted. However, look at the snap produced by a few
mg on la U-Tube video. And that with no confinement.


I think that 50mg may be too much as an estimate.
Can we agree on something like 5 -20mg for the amount of the mixture likely to adhere to the tips of the fingers?
It is spread in a thin layer over the skin so this also limits its power.
I suspect that we are dealing with so little that it might be possible to recover sufficient red phosphorous from a match box side to perform the trick.
The potassium chlorate could be recovered from the match heads. :D
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Rogeryermaw
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[*] posted on 7-1-2011 at 06:55


you definitely do not want to play with armstrong's mixture. even minuscule amounts are very powerful and once you lay the red P over the perchlorate it needs to be mixed. friction can set it off in your hand. it's not too far down the list from nitrogen triiodide in sensitivity. and that shit can be set off by a light breeze.



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[*] posted on 7-1-2011 at 07:22


I have made nitrogen triiodide and it is OK in small amounts.
Make it, filter off and leave the damp paper to dry and then tap it very gently with a stick.
The bang and purple cloud impressed the nephew no end.
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[*] posted on 19-3-2011 at 08:28


Damn, several months of searching and I've finally found what I've wanted.

OK, so I'm kinda into magic, especially fire tricks, and with that in mind, I'd like to repeat the thing that guy showed on youtube.

So, did anyone succeeded in making the components that that guy was talking about in youtube video?
Can someone help me to do the same? Cause you know, he's asking to much for them... And yes, I know it's dangerous, but look at the video, can those amounts that he's using really hurt?

Or maybe someone can suggest some other options with the same effect?

Anyways, I'm looking forward hearing any of your help on the matter. So PM me, or post here, etc.

Thanks
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[*] posted on 19-3-2011 at 13:53


I must have missed this thread, I now see it for the first time.

The effect looks amazing, but I have the feeling that it must be quite painful.

I made the red P / KClO3 mix many times and made a small demo video of this:

http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/exps/raw_material...

I can assure you that 50 mg of a hot burning mix directly in contact with your fingers is painful, very painful. I have experience with that. I tried the same experiment with red P and K3CrO8 instead of KClO3. The stuff ignited while mixing it and I had the container in my hand. Even with the container (which was an aluminium container for a waxine light) between the ignited mix and my skin I had a very painful evening. It hurt like hell!

So, I assume that the quantities, used in the video are much lower, maybe 1 or 2 mg. The quantities in my video also are much lower than 50 mg and even these small quantities give an amazingly violent reaction.

BE VERY CAREFUL WITH ARMSTRONGS MIX!!!

---------------------------------------------------------------------

The same experiment fails with KClO4 instead of KClO3. I never managed to ignite a mix of red P and KClO4 by simply tapping it. It can be ignited easily by means of flame, but mechanical shock does not easily ignite a mix with perchlorate. So, the mix really must contain chlorate, otherwise it will not work.

[Edited on 19-3-11 by woelen]




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[*] posted on 19-3-2011 at 14:51




Quote: Originally posted by ScienceSquirrel  

I suspect that we are dealing with so little that it might be possible to recover sufficient red phosphorous from a match box side to perform the trick.
The potassium chlorate could be recovered from the match heads.



I believe it is potassium perchlorate in the match heads. At least my box has a perchlorate warning on them for the state of California. I think using perchlorate my make it less sensitive than chlorate, though with the RP in it I doubt it would matter much.



[Edited on 19-3-2011 by Bot0nist]
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[*] posted on 19-3-2011 at 23:41


So after a bit more searching, I've found out, that both of the components can be made from matches (P - from box and KClO3 - from matches), right?

Can anyone show the best way to do that. I know there's plenty of instructions about that, including u-tube, but I'd prefer to hear this from guys who know what are they doing (in other words - professionals), instead of some 15 y.o. kid...
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[*] posted on 20-3-2011 at 07:35


Getting Red Phos from match boxes has been covered extensively here, and elsewhere on the net. Please try the search engine.

Chlorate or Perchlorate (whatever is used as the oxidizer in your matches) can be separated with a little thought. Find out whats in the match heads, use wikipedia/google to find out the properties (solubility, ect.) of each component, then extract, and recrystallize.

[Edited on 20-3-2011 by Bot0nist]
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[*] posted on 25-3-2011 at 12:33


Quote: Originally posted by crank01  
I want to know what these chemical compounds are for a magic trick but the price he's selling it for is way to high and was wondering if any one from this forum could help me I would be really thankful :D btw someone told me its RP and PP i dont know if that means (red powder) and (photo flash powder)?

This floated up on the morning tide - ND however, I believe I
received it from the editor of the Special F/X News Journal ca 1990.

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[*] posted on 11-4-2012 at 05:00
Devil's whisper


just wanted to say that this mixture can actually be easily found and 2 small bottles will run ya between 11-16 US dollars its sold as devil's whisper

as to concerns to safety
i use this powder often as an ignition source for flash paper and gun cotton in a fireball throwing trick and have never suffered any real pain or burns at most maybe a slight brown yellow burn stain after 30 or so uses in a row if anything the flash paper does more damage

that said i never use more than a pencil eraser sized dot of the red and only on the thumb followed by a thin layer of white covering the finger tip, twice that of red will feel like a firecracker going off three times the red and you wont be using those fingers for the rest of the day

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[*] posted on 13-4-2012 at 03:52


as a side note avoid cheap supplies or red p converted at home from white
while red p is insoluble and wont absorb through your skin if its contaminated with white p it will and is none to pleasant
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