Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: Water Pump
SoundClown
Harmless
*




Posts: 3
Registered: 17-12-2018
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 22-7-2019 at 18:42
Water Pump


So I recently purchased a high pressure water pump with the intentions of recirculating its flow through a scrupulously clean bucket as a source of water for my condenser. To my dismay, there was no power supply that actually came with the pump to ensure a smooth flow of electricity and upon further use I found that loose cords make it very problematic when dealing with distillations. Is there anybody more experienced out there that has more or less constructed their own power supply and if so what are the materials necessary? I thought I saw a video somewhere of a guy simply using two pristine nails in a slab of wood and simply wrapping the wires of the pump around the nails and charging electricity through the pump via a small control switch connected to a battery charger/jumper of some sort that seemed to store a single or couple of 12v batteries. If anyone has done something like this I would love input.

[Edited on 23-7-2019 by SoundClown]

[Edited on 23-7-2019 by SoundClown]

[Edited on 23-7-2019 by SoundClown]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
XeonTheMGPony
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1323
Registered: 5-1-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-7-2019 at 19:02


for condensers you do not want high pressure, you want volume, in a closed system you do not need to worry about vertical lift only dynamic flow resistance.

I use an MPC650 12v pump, and smallish tubing, more then enough flow, next is putting in a chiller system.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Sulaiman
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2591
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: Shah Alam, Malaysia
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 22-7-2019 at 22:24


Even a 5V (usb) water pump is adequate, but I use one of these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/240L-H-Ultra-DC-12V-3M-Garden-qui...

Consider the heat flows involved ;

At least half of the electrical heating power goes to heat of vapourisation,
which needs to be removed to condense the gas/vapour.
e.g. a 200W heating mantle will heat up the cooing water at an equivalent of 100W or more (a 1500W hotplate may require 1kW of cooling)
This heat will result in your recirculating water heating up.
So you need to cool the water.

Ice works, but a long distillation can use a LOT of ice,
I route my cooling water from the condenser(s) through an old central heating radiator
(I think that an automotive radiator with fan would be even better)
This removes a lot of the heat, requiring much less ice (or none at all for higher b.p. liquids)

I have implemented a recirculating cooling water system that uses a radiator and TEC-based cooling - 4x (eBay TEC1-12715 with cpu cooler fan/heatsink)
It works well, but is possibly too complex/expensive for a simple setup.




CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
(suffering from separation of me and my chemistry stuff)
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Herr Haber
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 581
Registered: 29-1-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 23-7-2019 at 01:28


It can sometimes be important to consider that your water pump will heat the water so a smaller pump may be desirable.
More important, if you are using a vacuum pump it will also give off heat in the room (and maybe melt some of your ice).
You may use a water cooler / chiller that will also add to heat in the room. And noise... so for long distillations it might become a nuisance.




The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
View user's profile View All Posts By User
thors.lab
Harmless
*




Posts: 31
Registered: 19-7-2019
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 23-7-2019 at 01:45


Buy a 12v power supply that outputs the amperage you need. They are CHEAP! Seriously. I bought a five pack of 12V 1A power supplies for like $10 a long time ago and I still have them lying around.

For my high pressure pump I need a 12V 5A power supply. Bought one on Amazon for like $11.

Then, I chopped off the DC plug (that little barrel plug that comes at the end of most of these 12V PSUs). You'll see two wires – red and black. Simple strip back the insulation and solder them to the leads on your 12V pump. Voila!

I then electrical taped the loose pieces. It would be better if you had heat shrink tubing, but I didn't have any lying around.




Please check out my latest video: Synthesizing Nitrobenzene, and the last one:
Making Nitric Acid.
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
XeonTheMGPony
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1323
Registered: 5-1-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 23-7-2019 at 05:00


Heater core and a couple good 12v fans been a solid go too.

I'm going with a refrigeration system, so I can turn it on advance and let it freeze a solid chunk of water.

Since I use a closed system I used a well cleaned sterile bucked with methanol and some preservatives. Bio films are a nightmare to clean out of any thing, never mind a cooling system!
View user's profile View All Posts By User
TheMrbunGee
National Hazard
****




Posts: 261
Registered: 13-7-2016
Location: EU
Member Is Offline

Mood: Phosphorising

[*] posted on 23-7-2019 at 06:06


Really cheap power supplies on ebay here

Buy 2 if you think one can break, but I have few different power ones, and 360W 12V one holds up quite good, have it running full power for months, with added fan to keep the temperature low.


Can recommend these for everyone, who needs DC voltage. (although I am not sure, how smooth the output is, might not work for whimsical devices)

Also there are fully adjustable ones. (These also have a trimmer, to adjust voltage ~ +/- 2 V)

[Edited on 23-7-2019 by TheMrbunGee]




View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
SoundClown
Harmless
*




Posts: 3
Registered: 17-12-2018
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 23-7-2019 at 17:51


Thanks for the replies and advice everyone! Very helpful indeed. I'm currently dealing with jumper cables from a friends car battery jumper lol. This is the specific diaphragm pump I ordered for those interested: https://www.ebay.com/p/12v-DC-60w-Home-High-Pressure-Diaphra...

Imagine running that under your condenser with jumper cables on your workspace with nothing but the clamps attached to your pumps wires. Then picture your face/lab being aggressively S P L U R G E D with water because you didn't secure your zip-ties tight enough around your condensers inlet or outlet. Scary rookie mistake stuff. I'm thinking I'll be looking into TheMrbunGees/thors.labs' tips on investing in a small AC 24V power supply and test out my soldering skills, but I will also most likely re-invest another $20 or so on another more quiet pump specifically for distillations and use the one I have now for reflux rxns. THANKS SO MUCH EVERYONE I'll try to post an update of the complete project for other beginners that are interested
View user's profile View All Posts By User
XeonTheMGPony
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1323
Registered: 5-1-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 23-7-2019 at 19:04


ya that is a very bad choice for running condenser water, as that can break glass wear, from the pulsations.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/DC-12V-G1-4-Low-Noise-CPU-Cooling-Wa...

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Micro-DC-Water-Pump-Computer-Water-C...

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/DC12V-Ultra-quiet-CPU-Cooling-Water-...

But you can see the theme by now.

Heat Rejection:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/240MM-Water-Cooling-Tube-CPU-Cooler-...

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/120-240-360mm-Water-Cooling-Tube-CPU...

[Edited on 24-7-2019 by XeonTheMGPony]

[Edited on 24-7-2019 by XeonTheMGPony]

P8280348.JPG - 1.5MB
View user's profile View All Posts By User
SoundClown
Harmless
*




Posts: 3
Registered: 17-12-2018
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 23-7-2019 at 19:43


I believe I found a more appropriate pump for my distillation needs: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Low-Noise-DC-12V-Solar-Hot-Water-Ci...

This one actually comes with a small power supply I can simply plug into a wall! Wish I would have saw this earlier. @XenonPony Interesting setup! I've ran water through my 400mm liebig and it seems to handle the rather fast flow pretty well, but in this case I definitely would also recommend a smaller pump setup.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
XeonTheMGPony
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1323
Registered: 5-1-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 24-7-2019 at 03:20


Quote: Originally posted by Felis Corax  
A bucket of ice would work better than a passive heat exchanger if you don't mind changing it when it melts too much. That's what I've been using, though I'm going to be upgrading to active cooling with a thermoelectric heat pump when my cooling block arrives from the mystical east.


Winters here are -30 average, I have to heat the water so what I distill doesn't freeze!

But summers I prefer refrigeration plant, Pelts are just too crappy efficiency wise, and a small Carnot cycle based system is superior and not hard to modify, that and you can usually all ways find some one tossing a water cooler
View user's profile View All Posts By User
unionised
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 4070
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 24-7-2019 at 03:26


Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  


Winters here are -30 average, ...

...you can usually all ways find some one tossing a water cooler

I can see why.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
happyfooddance
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 518
Registered: 9-11-2017
Location: Los Angeles, Ca.
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 24-7-2019 at 15:18


Quote: Originally posted by Felis Corax  
Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  
Winters here are -30 average, I have to heat the water so what I distill doesn't freeze!

But summers I prefer refrigeration plant, Pelts are just too crappy efficiency wise, and a small Carnot cycle based system is superior and not hard to modify, that and you can usually all ways find some one tossing a water cooler


Brrrr. Air-conditioned/heated basement lab for me, thanks!



A 20°C lab and using -30°C seasonal outdoor cooling are not incompatible in any obvious way, to me. Most laboratories (professional or amateur) have some means to run lines for gasses and liquids outside and back in, if required.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
XeonTheMGPony
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1323
Registered: 5-1-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 24-7-2019 at 17:35


Pelts have more thermal transfer capabilities, you need massive power per unit heat moved

Water cooler will blow a pelt out of the water per W burned. and you need very heavy cooling on the hot side of the pelt to get a good delta T
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Abromination
National Hazard
****




Posts: 313
Registered: 10-7-2018
Location: Alaska
Member Is Offline

Mood: Fumehood building!

[*] posted on 24-7-2019 at 19:40


I have made the mistake of using snow to cool my condensers as it is quite abundant in Alaska (or at least it used to be). I know have a horrid layer of biofilm in all of my columns and will have to strip it with piranha solution. My poor water pump could use some maintenance too.



List of materials made by ScienceMadness.org users:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nmJ8uq-h4IkXPxD5svnT...
--------------------------------
Elements Collected: H, Li, C, N, O, Mg, Al, Si, P, S, Fe, Ni, Cu, Zn, Ag, I, Au, Pb, Bi, Am
Last Acquired: Bi
Next: B
--------------
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User

  Go To Top