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Author: Subject: Ag2C2.AGNO3 (DS)
DrManhattan
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[*] posted on 2-12-2018 at 00:22


Quote: Originally posted by snooby  
In this video, they are using a solution of copper sulfate to wash the raw acetylene gas. Has anyone tried this?

https://youtu.be/F_TIVJS-lFc



Yes, i use a copper sulfate solution to purify my acetylene. Without it my batch came out in match head sized chunks and black. Running it through the copper sulfate solution changed it to off white/very light brown powder.
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DrManhattan
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[*] posted on 2-12-2018 at 00:32


I managed to find out why my caps were failing. I suspected that my SADS was not the problem so i made a cap minus the ETN and it fired fine. So i was thinking that my ETN was the problem. I dissolved a gram in acetone and let it dry out. Once the acetone had evaporated i had nice crystals but they were damp with some sort of liquid so i let it dry out for a few days till it was bone dry, assembled the cap and it fired fine. I guess the silver acetylide was absorbing whatever the liquid was and making it very insensitive to initiation. Strange since the ETN was allowed to dry out for 3 weeks and seemed to be totally dry.
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markx
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[*] posted on 3-12-2018 at 12:48


I've recristallised with ethanol. Dissolve the maximum amount in near boiling EtOH over a water bath of course and then set to deep freeze to drop out the product. The solution above the precipitate shall contain a lot of yellowish contaminants. Filter the batch and wash with distilled water. Most of the contaminants shall be removed by the solution passing through the filter and the product left behind is of a very nice flaky appearance with no noticeable impurities that could cause problems.



Exact science is a figment of imagination.......
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FeedMe94
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[*] posted on 27-3-2019 at 23:31


Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
hmm

What LoL is proposing should certainly work, but the issue is if this goes of the primary is now 4-8 times more powerful resulting in some bad damage.

It is interesting, but LoL, CHP works fine.

75mg of SADS fails to kick off PETN sometimes... so this could be a real help to that.


Well i know its an old post but... Today 85mg SADS failed to detonate hard hand pressed PETN. Should i try the KCLO3 mix ?
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MineMan
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[*] posted on 28-3-2019 at 09:26


Quote: Originally posted by FeedMe94  
Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
hmm

What LoL is proposing should certainly work, but the issue is if this goes of the primary is now 4-8 times more powerful resulting in some bad damage.

It is interesting, but LoL, CHP works fine.

75mg of SADS fails to kick off PETN sometimes... so this could be a real help to that.


Well i know its an old post but... Today 85mg SADS failed to detonate hard hand pressed PETN. Should i try the KCLO3 mix ?


I like using KCLO4 instead. But yes. Add 30 percent. Just grind your KCLO4 as fine as possible. Secondly, use a renforcing cap. Davis describes the glowing benefits of this...

It’s eseentially a strong plug above the primary.
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FeedMe94
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[*] posted on 29-3-2019 at 02:42


[/rquote]

I like using KCLO4 instead. But yes. Add 30 percent. Just grind your KCLO4 as fine as possible. Secondly, use a renforcing cap. Davis describes the glowing benefits of this...

It’s eseentially a strong plug above the primary. [/rquote]

I have plenty KCLO4 so i will try it. Also i didnt have good plug above primary a bit of tissue paper to hold the visco fuse
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XeonTheMGPony
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[*] posted on 29-3-2019 at 03:30


Quote: Originally posted by FeedMe94  
[/rquote]

I like using KCLO4 instead. But yes. Add 30 percent. Just grind your KCLO4 as fine as possible. Secondly, use a renforcing cap. Davis describes the glowing benefits of this...

It’s eseentially a strong plug above the primary. [/rquote]

I have plenty KCLO4 so i will try it. Also i didnt have good plug above primary a bit of tissue paper to hold the visco fuse


This is why I glue and crimp, you really really really need that to ensure good initiation when using non Azide primaries, it is a good guarantee and performance enhancer.

If you have the capability Nitro Lacquer makes for a fast simple glue of relative fast drying time.
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Vpatent357
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[*] posted on 19-6-2020 at 13:45
Update Wiki - New method synthesis


"Instead of the conventional synthesis of passing acetylene gas through silver nitrate solution, a purer and whiter precipitate can be formed by passing acetylene gas through acetone and adding the acetylene solution drop-wise to a dilute silver nitrate and nitric acid solution at ambient room temperature."

Update Wikipedia

What do you think of that method for prepare SADS ?

[Edited on 19-6-2020 by Vpatent357]




Small blasting caps, fingers safe!
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Belowzero
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[*] posted on 19-6-2020 at 22:31


This could be interesting it would be much easier to control the particle size.
Passing the gas through directly gives amorphous chunks of different sizes which are somewhat annoying to handle.
Usually higher temperatures give better results but this would force the gas from the solution.
Surely this is less messy than the traditional method.
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B(a)P
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[*] posted on 22-6-2020 at 01:11


Quote: Originally posted by Vpatent357  
"Instead of the conventional synthesis of passing acetylene gas through silver nitrate solution, a purer and whiter precipitate can be formed by passing acetylene gas through acetone and adding the acetylene solution drop-wise to a dilute silver nitrate and nitric acid solution at ambient room temperature."

Update Wikipedia

What do you think of that method for prepare SADS ?

[Edited on 19-6-2020 by Vpatent357]


I tried this method over the weekend. The resulting product was slightly off white with a very even and fine grain size. The yield was 96% based on silver.
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Belowzero
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[*] posted on 26-6-2020 at 05:53


I tried the synthesis using dissolved acetylene in aceton.

5 grams of acetone was put in a test tube, the testtube was placed in water just above freezing.
A glass pipet was used to bubble the acetylene from a calciumcarbide/water generator, roughly 10 grams.

An attempt was made to weigh the disolved acetylene but my scale was unable to register the weight gained.
Partly due to the spilling of the acetone since the gas generator was hard to control.

.5 gram of silver nitrate was dissolved in 30 gram of boiling water and filtered since something contaminated my silvernitrate and went out of solution.

The nitrate solution was allowed to cool just above room temperature roughly 35 degrees C.
The acetelyne/aceton solution was added to the silvernitrate solution in 3 steps and a white percipitate inmediately formed.

The SADS was transfered to a gravity filtration setup and washed with distilled water and a few ml of acetone.
Yield still has to be measured.


IMG_20200626_143344638.jpg - 4MB IMG_20200626_145952281.jpg - 3.2MB


Improvements:
Drip the water into the acetylene generator for better flow control.

A washing bottle(s) to purify the acetylene.



Even this crude attempt results in a far better product than using the 'traditional' method.
The SADS is just slightly off-white, I'll follow up with pictures of the dry material.


[Edited on 26-6-2020 by Belowzero]
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B(a)P
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[*] posted on 26-6-2020 at 13:46


Quote: Originally posted by Belowzero  

5 grams of acetone was put in a test tube

Improvements:
Drip the water into the acetylene generator for better flow control.

A washing bottle(s) to purify the acetylene.

I'll follow up with pictures of the dry material

[Edited on 26-6-2020 by Belowzero]


Nice write up thanks!

You could try using a measuring cylinder instead of a test tube to give you more freeboard.

I have good success slowing the generation of acetylene by adding I've instead of water to the carbide.

Please report back on your yield when your product is dry.
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[*] posted on 22-7-2020 at 18:31


I have come up with a way better and cleaner synthesis during experimenting. I was frustrated with getting off colored SADS and began runing tests altering temperature, different scrubbers, amount of acetylene, and time. This was using calcium carbide as the acetylene source. I recorded everything and the hot solution resulted in very white SADS BUUUT they were in globs and covered in a black impurity.

My improved synthesis involves bubbling the acetylene into acetone which basically purifies it extremely well. Then I add the acetone/acetylene solution drop wise with good stirring to the AgNO3 and HNO3 solution. A perfectly white precipitate forms. I have had other people on Reddit test it out and they reported perfect results as well.
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fdnjj6
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[*] posted on 22-7-2020 at 18:35


Damn it I did not see the other post already. I used the search option to find acetone and since he spelled it aceton, nothing popped up. I figured no one mentioned it yet.

I'm not sure if he figured this out before me but I had figured this out and posted my results on just about every sub reddit I could find that does explosives, months ago. I thought I was the first since no one had ever mentioned it on the internet and it was a discovery I made during my experimentation. Based off of the replies I got on my post, it sounded like I was the first. I'm not sure though since something could've been hidden or someone just never posted about it.
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[*] posted on 22-7-2020 at 18:38


Sorry to spam but the yields I get are around 100% It is a very efficient reaction. I wash everything with water and acetone to let it dry faster. A day later and it's ready for use in ETN/SADS detonators. It needs to be completely dry. Even samples that look dry often don't detonate properly or at all.
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[*] posted on 23-7-2020 at 20:20


Quote: Originally posted by fdnjj6  
Damn it I did not see the other post already. I used the search option to find acetone and since he spelled it aceton, nothing popped up. I figured no one mentioned it yet.

I'm not sure if he figured this out before me but I had figured this out and posted my results on just about every sub reddit I could find that does explosives, months ago. I thought I was the first since no one had ever mentioned it on the internet and it was a discovery I made during my experimentation. Based off of the replies I got on my post, it sounded like I was the first. I'm not sure though since something could've been hidden or someone just never posted about it.


I think that @Vpatent357 found the method on Wikipedia, rather than developing it themselves.

Out of interest have you compared performance between SADS from the acetylene dissolved in acetone method vs SADS from the more tradition method? I have found that generally it appears the same, but this is just based on some pretty subjective very small scale testing. When I find a spare day I intend to make some caps with SADS, some from the acetone method and some from the more traditional method. I plan to detonate them on a witness plate to make sure the performance is comparable before I use it to initiate a secondary.
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fdnjj6
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[*] posted on 27-7-2020 at 21:21


Haha funnily enough I was the one to edit that section in as soon as I figured it out. I was so ecstatic to have finally discovered something I thought no one had before and so I posted it everywhere I could. I had forgotten that I edited it on wikipedia as well. I should see if I can add it to the sciencemadness wiki as well. If you find my post on Reddit under the explosionandfire subreddit you'll see it was posted in April. If you go to the Wikipedia article you'll see the last edit was in April. I was the one who made the last edit which was where I added in the pure white part. Since I am not a professional and that was (what I believe to be) my own discovery, I didn't add any references. Hence, the big section in the middle of the article with 0 references.

EDIT: I just added my username to the article. I don't know if that's supposed to be done but that way it gives some more credibility since it was initially lacking any references of some sort.


Regarding your post, I didn't see much of a difference. In my initial attempts at making SADS I formed more SA than SADS due to lack to nitric acid and so it didn't form the double salt completely. There I was able to see a lot more carbon left over and it was weaker. Besides that there were no differences besides purity/color.

I believe that the light sensitivity had decreased a fair bit but it still was light sensitive. The main difference really was just color and purity. There were no more black or tan silver salts forming from acetylene impurities. From a technical perspective, since more SADS is there due to lack of impurities you would yield more energy but I think that the power difference is negligible.


[Edited on 28-7-2020 by fdnjj6]

[Edited on 28-7-2020 by fdnjj6]
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