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Author: Subject: Making fire (youtube collaborative video)
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[*] posted on 26-9-2011 at 08:56


yeah i watched that ages ago just couldnt remember if it made fire or just alot of heat consuming the Al, so could this be apart of the Fire with out Matches video if someone can do it?.... i would but i dont have any HCl to react with MnO2 to make Cl2... unless i can make some HCl quickly...



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[*] posted on 26-9-2011 at 10:03


Bromine and aluminum would be good if anyone wants to try.

For the chlorine and aluminum, because the aluminum has to be directly heated, pretty much with a torch, right before its added to the chlorine, I'm not sure its what were looking for. There are a lot of reacts that don't require additional activation energy, lets focus on those.

EDIT:

Also, thanks Chemistry Alchemist for his submissions I got this morning! Brake fluid and KMnO4 reactions.

[Edited on 26-9-2011 by hkparker]




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[*] posted on 26-9-2011 at 15:13


I'm just throwing it out there, but ferrate (FeO4-2) is an extremely powerful oxidant, even better than permanganate. Although don't know if anyone has sufficient amounts to start a fire.... Ferrate is pretty hard to come by.
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[*] posted on 26-9-2011 at 18:48


http://library.sciencemadness.org/library/ferrates.html

The library provided some insight into ferrates. yields seem pretty low so I doubt anyone will be able to try it, but if someone can that would be awesome!

In response to MrHomeScientists suggestion to open a new thread, I think we should do that for the third video, which will not be on fire (heh pun :P). So long is the topic is on fire without matches for a video lets keep it here. After its posted (sometime in the next two months probably) we can focus on another topic.




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[*] posted on 28-9-2011 at 14:06


Quote: Originally posted by hkparker  

After its posted (sometime in the next two months probably) we can focus on another topic.


I have some ideas for chemical "magic tricks" that I'd be happy to record on video if there's enough interest. A few starting ideas:

-When dropping permanganate into acidic H<sub>2</sub>O<sub>2</sub>, the intense pink color immediately disappears with a satisfying fizz.

-Invisible/heat activated inks

-Pouring phenolphthalein solution into an "empty" beaker of ammonia gas.

-KI/starch "ink" which suddenly appears in a jar of chlorine

Let me now if there's any interest in this (if not, no problem;))
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[*] posted on 28-9-2011 at 15:42


kuro96inlaila just resubmitted his potassium and tissue fire, thanks!



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[*] posted on 28-9-2011 at 20:37


Calcium Oxide was believed to be used as a weapon to ignite a fuel

"Quicklime is also thought to have been a component of Greek fire. Upon contact with water, quicklime would increase its temperature above 150 °C and ignite the fuel"

Any ideas how this could be played out?





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[*] posted on 28-9-2011 at 20:47


I have wetted calcium oxide and it got really hot I remember. I dont remember it getting hot enough to light a fuel but I wasn't trying.

Try touching calcium oxide to ensure dryness. Once its cool enough to touch, I would say a few things could be tried.

Try adding 91% alcohol (of any kind). The water in it might react and burn the alcohol.

Or try a mix of small amounts of water in any flammable solvent (acetone, etc).

If that doesn't work we'll think of more.




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[*] posted on 28-9-2011 at 21:00


yeah i was thinking along the line as that as well, Many videos are out there of the properties of Calcium Oxide and water, and there is a video out there of Calcium oxide cooking a egg from its heat, so couldn't you find a low flash point solvent, lay out some CaO on a heat proof mat, lay some foil down onto the the Calcium Oxide, and poor the solvent on top of the foil, When you add the water to the CaO it produces the heat that goes on the aluminum foil which heats up the solvent passed its flash point... thus igniting the solvent and making fire.... idk... just a guess that i came up with



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[*] posted on 28-9-2011 at 21:01


I would like to try but i dont currently have CaO... tho i could try to make it if i have time



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[*] posted on 28-9-2011 at 21:04


Your idea is also very worth a try.

CaO is not hard to make, so I would give it a try. I made it from decomposing calcium hydroxide. You can make that from reaction of any soluble calcium salt (like its chloride) and a hydroxide. Calcium chloride can be made from calcium carbonate (which is very very easy to find) and HCl.

I would try this if I was still in a home lab.




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[*] posted on 28-9-2011 at 21:25


Yeah ive got both Calcium Carbonate and Calcium Hydroxide, ill think aboout making some i guess, and then if i do, try and experiment with it... pretty sure i have some Isopropyl alcohol, ive got some acetone and everything else i would need :)



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[*] posted on 28-9-2011 at 21:26


Sounds great! Looking forward to the results.



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[*] posted on 29-9-2011 at 03:27
Calcium chloride from Calcim carbonate


Hi just read your post and you say that calcium chloride is easy to make from calcium carconate. well it was nice to see something about that because I just got finished processing some calcium ammonium nitrate and have some calcium carbonate left over from the process and was wondering what to do with it could you tell me how to make the CCl Im new at this and just trying to learn chemistry for a hobby.
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[*] posted on 29-9-2011 at 03:43


Your calcium carbonate probably has a lot of calcium sulfate in it. It's better to go to the garden store and buy a bag of hydrated lime for really cheap, and neutralize it with muriatic acid (The lime has some magnesium hydroxide in it). If you just want calcium chloride, buy Damp-Rid at a hardware store (if you're in the US, they will probably it), it's anhydrous. Also, post off topic questions in new threads or the short questions thread.

[Edited on 29-9-2011 by barley81]
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[*] posted on 30-9-2011 at 18:03


I can drop a tiny piece of sodium in dilute alcohol- the sodium will combust in the presence of H2O igniting the alcohol! (Similar to the calcium oxide idea I heard earlier).



hey, if you are reading this, I can't U2U, but you are always welcome to send me an email!


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[*] posted on 1-10-2011 at 01:01


If that works that sounds great but it might be too finicky. I can't get sodium to light in water unless I use a little more then I'm comfortable with, and the reaction will be slower in alcohol.



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[*] posted on 1-10-2011 at 04:50


if it were possible you could use potassium instead of sodium but that could be harder to get



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[*] posted on 1-10-2011 at 11:56


Might be a bit more explosive then we are going for.



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[*] posted on 3-10-2011 at 19:36


I still havent managed to dehydrate Calcium hydroxide >< i can only get 400 degrees while i need 512 to dehydrate the hydroxide, but im still working on it.

I just had another random idea, i dont know if its already mentioned but im pretty sure flint it a aloy of metals, those metals used are Pyrophoric and burst into fire to make sparks, could you just soak a a tissue in alcohol or acetone and put some sparks on it? pretty sure that will work or is that too much related to TheNaKLaB's idea of Pyrophoric Iron?




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[*] posted on 3-10-2011 at 19:39


Do you lack a blow torch? That's what I used in a small steel measuring cup. I dont remember it being too expensive and I got it at my local hardware store, its come in handy a lot.

Repeat video and similar ideas are fine, its always nice to have a new angle on things. TheNaKLaB, when you shoot your iron onto ethanol video can you try acetone as well, and both solvents dripped onto a paper towel?

If you can make iron oxalate then I would say give it a try as well, its a good idea.




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[*] posted on 3-10-2011 at 19:55


yeah i do lack on :/ my birthday is in 2 days and im hoping i got a oxytorch from bunnings, its used to weld copper so it reaches around 2000 degrees C, more then enough for dehydrating calcium hydroxide.

Id love to have make iron oxelate but i dont have oxalic acid yet




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[*] posted on 3-10-2011 at 19:58


Oxy torches are fun (I had an oxy/MAPP torch, it was awesome) but rarely useful. The flame is too powerful (you will start to need to worry about being in a steel container) and very small, so it only heats a confined area. Lastly, you get maybe 10-15 minutes out of those expensive oxygen tanks. Be sure to pick up a standard propane torch as well.

I had that, a trigger start MAPP torch, and my oxy/MAPP one. I used the propane and MAPP about as often as each other, and pretty often. I used the oxy one a few times.

Happy Birthday! :D




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[*] posted on 3-10-2011 at 20:06


yeah i cant remember the other fuel that is mixed in with the oxygen but its a copper welding torch so it would do the job easly, i did have a mini one as you would see in my White phosphorus video but after a while the compressed butane was cooling the hose connecting the chamber to the igniter end and i had a leak, few was been spitted out the other end, so i discarded it unfortunately :/ yeah im finally turning 18 :D



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[*] posted on 4-10-2011 at 23:26


I don't think anyone has submitted red fuming nitric acid and nitrile glove. I remember trying some of this acid on a pile of sawdust, which is said to ignite, but it didn't.

A mixture of sugar and PbO2 in a small amount of alcohol should ignite the alcohol when a drop or two conc. H2SO4 contacts the solid mixture (ground separately). I don't know if it would work while the solid mixture is wet with alcohol, or if the solid mix has to be quickly put on the alcohol layer before it all becomes wet, or must be nearby. PbO2 (or something very close to it) is very simple to make from hypochlorite and a soluble lead salt. But note that alcohol flames can hardly or not be seen in the daylight, esp. under sunlight (colorants like metal chlorides, CuSO4, or boric acid add visibility to the flame).

For the exotic, KMnO4 and previous fuels mentioned in this thread like triethanolamine or benzaldehyde are known to work. If one is feeling more explorative then polar aprotics also already previously mentioned in this thread or not (like propylene carbonate) might also give reaction with KMnO4.
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