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Author: Subject: Making fire (youtube collaborative video)
Morgan
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 05:56


This would be an interesting way to start a fire, if you could set it up easily enough.
http://gltrs.grc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/GLTRS/browse.pl?2005/TM-20...
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 11:34


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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 12:52


White Phosphorus in CS2 isn't that bad. The solution itself is stable and storable, and in no way does sloshing it around in a glass flask set it on fire. I've made and used this solution a few times.
If a drop is left to evaporate on a watch glass, it doesn't catch fire since the heat from the autooxidising phosphorus is removed too rapidly. Only if the solution is dripped onto paper does it catch fire upon evaporation, and then only reliably if it isn't too cold. If the temperature is far below freezing, the dried solution will just intensely glow in the dark and emit white smoke, but not ignite.

The concentration of P4 in the solution must not be too low, otherwise there will be no ignition of the paper, just localized charring. 100mg in 10ml CS2 will most likely not work, use at least 500mg.




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The WiZard is In
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 12:52
'hole bunch of candidates


View Full Text pdf - 5 MB
Title: HANDBOOK OF SELECTED PROPERTIES OF AIR- AND WATER-REACTIVE MATERIALS
Personal Author: Gibson, Jack R Weber, Jeanne D
Corporate Author: NAVAL AMMUNITION DEPOT CRANE IN
Source Code: 247250
Page Count: 226 page(s)
AD Number: AD0688422
Report Date: 01 MAR 1969
Distribution Code: 01 - APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE 23 - AVAILABILITY:
DOCUMENT PARTIALLY ILLEGIBLE
Report Classification: U - Unclassified
Collection: Technical Reports

http://tinyurl.com/5rmn5qs

I own a library bound copy the parts of this that are
partially illegible are so in my copy.

There dobe an index for this out on la net.

How 'bout a RedTube version of this?!?
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The WiZard is In
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 16:51
Ethylene glycol perhaps


Tado Yoshida
Safety of Reactive Chemicals
Elsevier 1987

Ethylene-glycol.jpg - 145kB


djh
---

The womb was a damnable disadvantage in the struggle with the men, a cranky
fouled-up bag of horrors for any woman who would stand equal to man on
modern jobs, for technology was the domain of number, of machines and
electronic circuits, of plastic surfaces, static, vibrations, and contemporary noise.
Yet through all such disturbance, technology was still built on conformity of
practice. If it could adjust to rhythm, tide, the ebb of mood, and the phasing in
and phasing out of energy in the men and women who worked its machines,
nonetheless such adjustments were dear to technology, for each departure from
a uniform beat demanded a new expensive control. The best operator was the
uniform operator, and women had that unmentionable womb, that spongy pool,
that time machine with a curse, dam for an ongoing river of blood whose rhythm
seemed to obey some private compact with the moon. How this womb,
unaccountable liaison with the beyond, disrupted every attempt at uniform
behavior!

Mr. Norman Mailer
The Prisoner of Sex
Little, Brown and Company
Boston
1971

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Morgan
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 20:01


I remember reading a very thick Hazardous Materials handbook at my university and they even had one on hand at the landfill I visited. As mentioned, there are endless examples to be sure.
How about a shampoo bottle and methanol vapor? ha
http://www.esdjournal.com/static/shower/shower.html
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Zaratukhshthra
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[*] posted on 4-2-2011 at 03:22


Quote: Originally posted by Formatik  
I've never gotten any hypergolic ignitions out of calcium hypochlorite (65% and old, and others) with various substances (brake fluid having glycol ethers, glycerol, and all else I've mixed it with, the first two which are said to cause ignition).

When I was at highschool I used to pour some (say 10-20 gr) calcium hypochlorite (65%) and a few mL brake fluid in a 1.5 L soda bottle, close the cap and run away. After a few minutes the bottle was suddenly filled with white/gray smoke and went boom right after, making a beautiful smoke ball...(man! I miss those good tmes)... anyway I remember at least one occasion where the bottle bursted into flames. so I think if one pulverize the Ca(ClO)2 (I used granules), work on correct ratios and use a long glass rod to rapidly mix the chems, it would do the trick.

[Edited on 4-2-2011 by Zaratukhshthra]
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[*] posted on 4-2-2011 at 04:47


The following is a set of experiments, which I have done and which give fire without the need to heat anything:

Aluminium in bromine: http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/exps/Al+Br2/index...
Al, P, KNO3 in chlorine gas: http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/exps/chlorine_fla...
Acetylene in chlorine gas: http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/exps/cl2_c2h2/ind...
Magnesium, silver nitrate and water: http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/exps/AgNO3+Mg/ind...
Phosphine and chlorine: http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/exps/ph3_cl2/inde...
Chlorine dioxide and ammonia: http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/exps/NH3_ClO2/ind...

I have more experiments with fire, but these already are mentioned above.


Furthermore, there are a few more I have done, but without web page:

100 mg of Sodium chlorite (NaClO2), a few drops of acetone, a few drops of conc. H2SO4. Let soak for a while and then add a small drop of water.
This leads to a bright orange flash and possible cracking of test tube. NEVER SCALE UP!

TCCA (or Na-DCCA) crushed into a fine powder. Add some red P. Usually this leads to self-ignition within a few minutes. This also works with Ca(OCl)2.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My favorite is the Al, red P and KNO3 mix added to chlorine gas. This leads to very bright white flashes and this experiment is highly spectacular. I sometimes do this as a demo for family and friends. They love it!






The art of wondering makes life worth living...
Want to wonder? Look at https://woelen.homescience.net
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[*] posted on 4-2-2011 at 06:05
another one.


Hello all,

Fine Aluminum powder and Cupric Chloride will start to burn with a drop of water.

The Alchemist.....
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Morgan
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[*] posted on 4-2-2011 at 07:41


I recall eye-droppering some turpentine in chlorine gas.
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Morgan
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[*] posted on 4-2-2011 at 18:44


I'm sure powdered zinc and ammonium nitrate seem boring, but if you intimately grind a healthy amount of iodine in with the ammonium nitrate and then add the zinc, it produces a far more beautiful smoke than other iodine demonstrations. It can light so fast you have no time to step back. The billowing blue-voilet smoke is so intensely vivid you wish it could last longer.
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[*] posted on 5-2-2011 at 03:28


These all seem very interesting.
Has Nurdrage recorded any video for this project yet?
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[*] posted on 5-2-2011 at 09:47


I tried doing a couple involving glycerine, but I think my glycerine is bad since nothing happened. So i'm currently testing brake fluid based compositions.
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Formatik
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[*] posted on 5-2-2011 at 13:33


Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In  
Dr. Ellern in his first book (bet you didn't know there are two!).
Modern Pyrotechnics, 1961. Notes that potassium permanganate
will react not only with glycerin, but also with:

ethylene glycol
erythritol
mannitol
methyglycol
monochlorohydrine
triethanolamine
acetaldehyde
benzaldehyde

Original reference:
H. Rathsburg and H Gawlick. Chem Ztg., 65, 426-7, (1941).


This is a lost reference. Chemiker-Zeitung went through several changes over the years, to the point apparently where this reference can no longer be found. The original title of the paper was: "Über Entflammungen beim Zusammenbringen von organischen Verbindungen mit Kaliumpermanganat" (= Concerning ignitions from the mixing of organic compounds with potassium permanganate). Chemisches Zentralblatt 113, 1942 I, 651 has an abstract of it.

Quote: Originally posted by Zaratukhshthra  
When I was at highschool I used to pour some (say 10-20 gr) calcium hypochlorite (65%) and a few mL brake fluid in a 1.5 L soda bottle, close the cap and run away. After a few minutes the bottle was suddenly filled with white/gray smoke and went boom right after, making a beautiful smoke ball...(man! I miss those good tmes)... anyway I remember at least one occasion where the bottle bursted into flames. so I think if one pulverize the Ca(ClO)2 (I used granules), work on correct ratios and use a long glass rod to rapidly mix the chems, it would do the trick.


With large enough amounts, I would imagine there could be some ignitions with those kinds of compounds.

Quote: Originally posted by NurdRage  
I tried doing a couple involving glycerine, but I think my glycerine is bad since nothing happened. So i'm currently testing brake fluid based compositions.


It can be useful to even report the failures alongside the successes to help reinforce what works and what doesn't. Also, make sure the brake fluid has glycol ethers or similar compounds. This is what makes it a good reactive fuel. Glycerin is hygroscopic, and water content might interfere with some reactions.
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[*] posted on 5-2-2011 at 14:36


A few weeks ago I bought a cheap but large 18 inch stainless steel salad bowl for an experiment and out of curiousity found I could light a fire with it. It has kind of a mirror finish. I guess it's conceivable you could light your curtains/house on fire if you left it near them in sunlight. It took about a minute for me to light a brown paper bag on fire. I saw this large "fire bowl" and it might have a reflective enough surface to focus light too. If you drag your mouse over the bowl you can view it better. Recently in the news there was a fellow sunbathing and he was forced to leave the pool area from the heat/sunlight reflecting off the tall building.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_07122985000P
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[*] posted on 5-2-2011 at 15:42


Quote: Originally posted by Morgan  
A few weeks ago I bought a cheap but large 18 inch stainless steel salad bowl for an experiment and out of curiousity found I could light a fire with it. It has kind of a mirror finish. I guess it's conceivable you could light your curtains/house on fire if you left it near them in sunlight. It took about a minute for me to light a brown paper bag on fire. I saw this large "fire bowl" and it might have a reflective enough surface to focus light too. If you drag your mouse over the bowl you can view it better. Recently in the news there was a fellow sunbathing and he was forced to leave the pool area from the heat/sunlight reflecting off the tall building.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_07122985000P


That goes along the lines of fire starting from a physics perspective. Which is also interesting. Like through friction (using wooden sticks), percussion (flint and steel), sunlight radiation (using magnifying glass and lenses), electricity (steel wool and 9 V batteries, using stronger electrical charges to ignite combustibles, etc), and so on. But that appears to be beside the thread-starter's objectives.
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[*] posted on 5-2-2011 at 17:38


I remember reading some first accounts to carry hydrogen and chlorine flasks under black cloth outdoors and exposing them to sunlight. It's kind of a fast fire I know, but it seems entertaining. Imagine the first scientists playing with this new discovery. Yet another old experiment.
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[*] posted on 5-2-2011 at 19:47


I once made a large amount of yellow oxalate powder and heated some in a test tube, sealing it with a waxed cork and all for later. If you stand on a chair and sprinkle the contents, the iron makes a good shower of sparks as it reacts with the air.
It's kind of entertaining to watch the powder puff about as it breaks down when being heated. I don't know if this qualifies as fire, but it's one of those classic demonstrations.
Reading back, I see mr. crow aleady mentioned pyrophoric iron.

[Edited on 6-2-2011 by Morgan]
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[*] posted on 6-2-2011 at 21:10


From Wikipedia "Spontaneous ignition can result from solution of sodium borohydride in dimethylformamide." This sounds neat because its a reducing agent not an oxidizing agent!

Not enough water in the glycerin can also mess it up.




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Morgan
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[*] posted on 7-2-2011 at 07:43


Quote: Originally posted by Morgan  
This is pretty left field but I wonder if a bombardier beetle could ignite a small vessel with CS2 vapor and air if you directed his abdomen toward the said arrangement?
CS2 - Auto-ignition temperature: 90°C

Or would his chemical reaction go better in a pure oxygen atmosphere? Seems there must be something he could ignite with his chemical entourage.
http://sps.nus.edu.sg/~yanganqi/angel6.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sHo8lokQlA&playnext=1&am...

I came across another tidbit of interest. The article is from Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
"An early explorer, reporting on large bombardier beetles from the neotropics, commented that when these “play off their artillery” they are so hot to the touch “that only few (can) be captured with the naked hand” (19).
http://www.pnas.org/content/96/17/9705.full
http://www.swedishbiomimetics.com/umist.htm
In all the old demonstration books they talk of nitrogen triiodide being sensitive enough to be set off by a fly, but it would be amusing to have a demonstration of a beetle starting a fire I think.
I remember sparking a sealed 2 liter plasitc bottle filled with CS2 vapor and yellow sulfur plating out on the sides of the bottle. The bottle dd not rupture, but briefly expanded ever so slightly. Maybe some of you more knowledgable out there have an idea of some substance that would ignite with products of the beetle's spray. Not that I would want to inflame a beetle, but design it so you could segregate him from any harm.
And yes, I don't have any illusions of anyone really wanting to or going out and trying this, it's just a thought experiment. Although, if I did live in the neotropics, it might be something to tinker with on a rainy day. It makes you wonder if nature could have, given enough time, invented some creature that conjures fire, other than man.
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[*] posted on 7-2-2011 at 08:00


hard part is getting these beetles. I live in canada and they're not native here.

If anyone wants to get a hold of them though then that video would be awesome.
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[*] posted on 7-2-2011 at 08:35
Bombardier beetles from Science



Defensive spray of the bombardier beetle

Attachment: Bombardier Beetle 1.pdf (1.2MB)
This file has been downloaded 1465 times
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[*] posted on 7-2-2011 at 08:38


Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In  

Defensive spray of the bombardier beetle


File 2 is tooo large to upload.



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[*] posted on 7-2-2011 at 08:42
Bombardier beetle last


Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In  

Defensive spray of the bombardier beetle




Attachment: Bombider beetle 4.pdf (1.2MB)
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[*] posted on 7-2-2011 at 23:17


@NurdRage

A lot of ideas have been discussed and I think we have a really good list of reactions, so I was wondering where were going from here.

Are you going to give us a list of reactions to film or should I already be filming and sending you things right now? I don't think we should all just start filming because some of us are likley to do the same thing, so if you could let me know what you want me to film, or maybe wait a while for more ideas, just let me know, thank you.




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