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Author: Subject: Making fire (youtube collaborative video)
Megamarko94
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[*] posted on 21-4-2011 at 00:55


if you put sulfur with a small peace of white phosphorus...it ignites...

[Edited on 21-4-2011 by Megamarko94]
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MrHomeScientist
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[*] posted on 21-4-2011 at 05:36


Really sorry to hear about the mishap, mewrox99 :( I'd thought after seeing your potato chip in Mn2O7 nothing would frighten you! Safety definitely needs to be everyone's number one priority, but I do hope you'll continue doing chemistry in the future.


In other news, I found this reference on the wiki for potassium chlorate:

"Potassium chlorate can react with sulfuric acid to form a highly reactive solution of chloric acid and potassium sulfate:

2 KClO3 + H2SO4 → 2 HClO3 + K2SO4
The solution so produced is sufficiently reactive that it will spontaneously ignite if combustible material (sugar, paper, etc) is present."

Could be worth a try! I don't have any chlorate sadly, but I really want to build a chlorate cell (I just don't know what to do about electrodes).
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kuro96inlaila
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[*] posted on 22-4-2011 at 09:39


Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist  
Really sorry to hear about the mishap, mewrox99 :( I'd thought after seeing your potato chip in Mn2O7 nothing would frighten you! Safety definitely needs to be everyone's number one priority, but I do hope you'll continue doing chemistry in the future.


In other news, I found this reference on the wiki for potassium chlorate:

"Potassium chlorate can react with sulfuric acid to form a highly reactive solution of chloric acid and potassium sulfate:

2 KClO3 + H2SO4 → 2 HClO3 + K2SO4
The solution so produced is sufficiently reactive that it will spontaneously ignite if combustible material (sugar, paper, etc) is present."

Could be worth a try! I don't have any chlorate sadly, but I really want to build a chlorate cell (I just don't know what to do about electrodes).


Chloric acid and tissue paper......
I have try that way,but it rarely ignites.Chloric acid will only turn tissue paper into goey black substance actively.

No fire was generated.:(




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ItalianChemist
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[*] posted on 22-4-2011 at 09:47


Manganese heptoxide is simply to made and can ignite any organic compaund.
It can be preparated simply mixing some potassium permanganate with a few drops of concentrated sulphuric acid. The solution will turn dark green.
To test it, add a single drop of the green solution to some acetone!
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NurdRage
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[*] posted on 24-4-2011 at 19:53


This is REALLY REALLY dangerous, so only i'm going to do it:

a molten eutectic mixture of potassium and sodium hydroxide and then dropping in some magnesium. The magnesium reacts with the hydroxides to form NaK which at 200 celsius instantly catches fire.

Ofcourse it also shoots out droplets of flaming NaK and hydroxides so while full of pyrotechnic charm this is incredibly dangerous.
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mewrox99
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[*] posted on 24-4-2011 at 21:17


Can't wait to see the footage. Please don't kill yourself that rxn seems ferociously dangerous
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mewrox99
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[*] posted on 24-4-2011 at 21:19


Also as a part of the year of chemistry video competition my parents have let me do one last thing with chlorite. 0.5g of NaClO2/Ascorbic acid ignited by a drop of water. I can also submit the footage for the nurdrage project
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NurdRage
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[*] posted on 24-4-2011 at 22:04


sounds good

oh btw, i successfully got your other video too.
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mewrox99
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[*] posted on 25-4-2011 at 03:50


Cool.

That reaction your trying seems stupidly dangerous. I probably did one of the most retarded things in my entire life the other day which lead to my accident. I think people are curious so I'll talk about it in detail

I mixed in total about 1g of NH2OH.HCl/NaClO2 together. Expecting they would ignite instantly when mixed i carefully with a long stick mixed them. No heat at all. So I poured into a peice of filter paper and waited a minute. Nothing. So I decided to take outside and light it. I then noticed I didn't have my camera and walked into my room (whilst holding it :( ) I grab the camera and was seconds from the door when a self ignited in my hand, (small fire)

This has scared me.

After further thinking I hate to think of the two chemicals could have reacted. Ie BOOM end of mewrox99 :(

If you think something will make a good youtube think it through in detail first.

I am very embarrassed to talk about this and that I could have done something so stupid!

I'm only 15 so decided and I'm probably not ready to be dealing with dangerous chemicals.

I got hyped up and didn't think things through.

I won't sell anything just pack away my stuff for a while.

Please don't judge me too harshly for this; everyone makes mistakes :(

<B> Impulsivity and chemistry are a DEADLY combination </b>

[Edited on 25-4-2011 by mewrox99]
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woelen
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[*] posted on 25-4-2011 at 22:46


@mewrox99: I do not judge you, I actually think that you are smarter than many older and more experienced people over here, or on other forums. I know of people who just go on with dangerous things, even after two or three of such warnings. You, however, did have an embarrassing experience and may feel retarted, but you consider it as a lesson learnt.

It's good to pack away your stuff for a few weeks, cool down a little bit and in the meantime read on and think of other new experiments (and keep visiting sciencemadness ;) ). But the interest will not die, it will remain and you will unpack your materials again and do new experiments.

The goddess of chemistry is beautiful, but when not handled with care, she can bite hard!




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mewrox99
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[*] posted on 26-4-2011 at 00:09


Thanks for the knid words woelen.
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ItalianChemist
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[*] posted on 26-4-2011 at 09:47


Quote: Originally posted by NurdRage  
This is REALLY REALLY dangerous, so only i'm going to do it:

a molten eutectic mixture of potassium and sodium hydroxide and then dropping in some magnesium. The magnesium reacts with the hydroxides to form NaK which at 200 celsius instantly catches fire.

Ofcourse it also shoots out droplets of flaming NaK and hydroxides so while full of pyrotechnic charm this is incredibly dangerous.

Sounds very interesting, NaK reacts very violently with water
Ins't easier starting from potassium and sodium if you have?
Anyway, this is very dangerous, do this only in a nitrogen or argon atmosphere!
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NurdRage
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[*] posted on 26-4-2011 at 22:03


I hear ya, i'll be taking the precautions necessary to be safe.

but yeah, i won't do this if i ultimately don't feel my precautions are adequate.

@mewrox99

Good to hear you're ok and still in one piece. By all means take time off and reevaluate your experimental approach. What we do is fun but its more fun if we're alive to see it. Do whatever you need to do to absolutely secure your safety. The last thing i want is anyone getting hurt doing this project.
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Mumbles
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[*] posted on 26-4-2011 at 22:22


The eutectic melting point of KOH/NaOH isn't much below the alledged ignition temp. I think it would be a questionable preparation.

If you're going to go through the trouble of making NaK, you can add using the potassium superoxide formed upon exposure to air to the self-ignition list. It will light up/explode with pretty much any organic.

[Edited on 4-27-2011 by Mumbles]
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hkparker
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[*] posted on 26-4-2011 at 22:29


Alkali metal superoxides/peroxides is a good idea. Ill make some sodium peroxide and try that with a few organics.



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woelen
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[*] posted on 27-4-2011 at 02:39


A funny experiment is taking fine granules of Na2O2 and put this on toilet paper and spray some water on this (e.g. with a flower sprayer). Only seconds after spraying the water on this, the whole mess inflames and burns with a very hot and bright flame. I did this experiment with 2 grams of Na2O2 and was amazed about the size and intensity of the resulting fire.



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NurdRage
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[*] posted on 27-4-2011 at 04:05


Quote: Originally posted by Mumbles  
The eutectic melting point of KOH/NaOH isn't much below the alledged ignition temp. I think it would be a questionable preparation.

If you're going to go through the trouble of making NaK, you can add using the potassium superoxide formed upon exposure to air to the self-ignition list. It will light up/explode with pretty much any organic.

[Edited on 4-27-2011 by Mumbles]


The whole point is to get it to ignite. I'm trying to make fire, not really trying to make NaK. :)
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mewrox99
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[*] posted on 27-4-2011 at 05:09


Woelen's NaNO2 method sounds cool. Really need to get some nitrite sometime

EDIT: Fail shouldn't read so fast :)

[Edited on 28-4-2011 by mewrox99]
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ItalianChemist
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[*] posted on 27-4-2011 at 05:11


Quote: Originally posted by NurdRage  


The whole point is to get it to ignite. I'm trying to make fire, not really trying to make NaK. :)

Put NaK into water!
Quote: Originally posted by mewrox99  
Woelen's NaNO2 method sounds cool. Really need to get some nitrite sometime

Na2O2....not NaNO2

[Edited on 27-4-2011 by ItalianChemist]
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[*] posted on 27-4-2011 at 05:21


Sodium peroxide is not an easy material to get your hands on. :(
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NurdRage
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[*] posted on 27-4-2011 at 05:28


Quote: Originally posted by ItalianChemist  
Quote: Originally posted by NurdRage  


The whole point is to get it to ignite. I'm trying to make fire, not really trying to make NaK. :)

Put NaK into water!



I don't have NaK.


And even if I did, you gotta realize essentially the reaction i'm going for is this:

(molten) NaOH + KOH + Mg ----> FIRE!

NaK is just an intermediate.



@ScienceSquirrel I thought you hated my video presentations and demanded i produced write-ups instead.

Why are you helping me for this video?

[Edited on 27-4-2011 by NurdRage]
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Morgan
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[*] posted on 27-4-2011 at 05:52


I was thinking if you had some mixture that was just stable around the freezing point of water, you could place it on a nearby thermogenic plant and start a fire that way. It's kind of a left field idea I know but it's seems conceptually possible to start a fire with the heat of a plant.

"Thermogenesis is rare in plants, but does occur in several species of Arum, and in the philodendron, as well as the skunk cabbage. The heat generation of these thermogenic plants is not trivial, either. Recent measurements of the titan arum “Ted”, at UC Davis, showed the inflorescence– the flower-like structure of the arum– could maintain a temperature of 32 degrees Centigrade (90 F), well above the surrounding air temperature of 20 C (68 F). The skunk cabbage can do even better, maintaining temperatures as high as 35 C, even when the air temperature is below freezing."
http://www.damninteresting.com/warm-blooded-plants
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_skunk_cabbage
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NurdRage
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[*] posted on 27-4-2011 at 05:58


O_o

o_O

Thermogenic plants?

(head explodes)

This is actually a good video idea on its own! :D

Thanks! i'll look into this topic!
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[*] posted on 27-4-2011 at 15:26


Quote: Originally posted by ScienceSquirrel  
Sodium peroxide is not an easy material to get your hands on. :(


My plan is to make crude Na2O2 by burning sodium. Ill try a few things (Woelen's tissue experiment, acetone, ethanol, sugar) and I will also be doing chromyl chloride and sulfur soon.


EDIT: update!

I made some crude sodium peroxide but had no luck with it. It bubbled in acetone and ethanol, would burn with magnesium when a drop of water was added. Ah well.

Sulfur and chromyl chloride video being sent to NurdRage.

[Edited on 28-4-2011 by hkparker]




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mewrox99
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[*] posted on 27-4-2011 at 22:35


I'm really looking forward to seeing the end result of this project. Are you uploading the video to your Nurdrage channel or making a special channel
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