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Author: Subject: Acetylide from NaOH + carbon - does this actually work?
Merryp
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[*] posted on 18-12-2019 at 17:02
Acetylide from NaOH + carbon - does this actually work?


There's an old patent claiming as much:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2802723A/en?q=C01B32%2f9...

Seems a little too easy doesn't it? Compared to CaC2 requiring an arc furnace...
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SWIM
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[*] posted on 19-12-2019 at 09:04


Sodium carbide explodes in contact with water and gets so hot it glows when it is in a CO2 atmosphere.
At least according to a 1904 fire and explosion risk handbook I just checked.

So quenching it to get the acetylene would have to be done pretty carefully.

But 700 to 900 degrees instead of 2200 is one hell of an advantage.





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[*] posted on 19-12-2019 at 11:59


Quote: Originally posted by SWIM  
Sodium carbide explodes in contact with water and gets so hot it glows when it is in a CO2 atmosphere.
At least according to a 1904 fire and explosion risk handbook I just checked.

So quenching it to get the acetylene would have to be done pretty carefully.

But 700 to 900 degrees instead of 2200 is one hell of an advantage.


From the patent the yield is between 0.4% and 4% so probably only care would be required :D

I wounder why the yield is so low, perhaps its not stable enough at the synthesis temperature.

Apparently judging from its reactivity the bonding is very weak so it decomposes in the furnace almost as fast as its synthesised .

Na2C2.JPG - 127kB

From google




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[*] posted on 23-12-2019 at 12:15


Quote: Originally posted by wg48temp9  
Quote: Originally posted by SWIM  
Sodium carbide explodes in contact with water and gets so hot it glows when it is in a CO2 atmosphere.
At least according to a 1904 fire and explosion risk handbook I just checked.

So quenching it to get the acetylene would have to be done pretty carefully.

But 700 to 900 degrees instead of 2200 is one hell of an advantage.


From the patent the yield is between 0.4% and 4% so probably only care would be required :D

I wounder why the yield is so low, perhaps its not stable enough at the synthesis temperature.

Apparently judging from its reactivity the bonding is very weak so it decomposes in the furnace almost as fast as its synthesised .



From google


so wait since it is theoretically possible then is there a way to get a better yield like an inert atmosphere, catylist, or even just use a different cation to begin with. like will calcium hydroxide work???
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[*] posted on 23-12-2019 at 14:23


What about ammonium carbide? Seems it should exist - no idea how it would be synthesized though.
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[*] posted on 23-12-2019 at 16:14


Quote: Originally posted by hodges  
What about ammonium carbide? Seems it should exist - no idea how it would be synthesized though.

nope . no way dude! and that all i,m gonna say except what he described is how to make sodium. 6NaOH + 2C -------->2Na + 3H2+ 2Na2CO3




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[*] posted on 23-12-2019 at 22:08


Quote: Originally posted by rockyit98  
Quote: Originally posted by hodges  
What about ammonium carbide? Seems it should exist - no idea how it would be synthesized though.

nope . no way dude! and that all i,m gonna say except what he described is how to make sodium. 6NaOH + 2C -------->2Na + 3H2+ 2Na2CO3


but sodium is more reactive than carbon on the reactivity series, it isnt really possible in normal conditions such as a redox reaction. the only thing that is less reactive than sodium but that can still replace it is magnesium to my knowledge but carbon just reduces its oxidation state and if it acted as an anion in this case then the sodium carbide is a plausible case to make here
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[*] posted on 24-12-2019 at 02:38


Quote: Originally posted by Armus_  
Quote: Originally posted by rockyit98  
Quote: Originally posted by hodges  
What about ammonium carbide? Seems it should exist - no idea how it would be synthesized though.

nope . no way dude! and that all i,m gonna say except what he described is how to make sodium. 6NaOH + 2C -------->2Na + 3H2+ 2Na2CO3


but sodium is more reactive than carbon on the reactivity series, it isnt really possible in normal conditions such as a redox reaction. the only thing that is less reactive than sodium but that can still replace it is magnesium to my knowledge but carbon just reduces its oxidation state and if it acted as an anion in this case then the sodium carbide is a plausible case to make here

do your research before shouting out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium#Commercial_production




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[*] posted on 25-12-2019 at 17:09


Quote: Originally posted by rockyit98  
Quote: Originally posted by Armus_  
Quote: Originally posted by rockyit98  
Quote: Originally posted by hodges  
What about ammonium carbide? Seems it should exist - no idea how it would be synthesized though.

nope . no way dude! and that all i,m gonna say except what he described is how to make sodium. 6NaOH + 2C -------->2Na + 3H2+ 2Na2CO3


but sodium is more reactive than carbon on the reactivity series, it isnt really possible in normal conditions such as a redox reaction. the only thing that is less reactive than sodium but that can still replace it is magnesium to my knowledge but carbon just reduces its oxidation state and if it acted as an anion in this case then the sodium carbide is a plausible case to make here

do your research before shouting out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium#Commercial_production


sorry, its really cool to know actually. i was thinking about it being reduced instead of making metallic sodium is because of for instance sodium nitrate and carbon makes sodium nitrite. sorry about that, but that is really interesting, i may want to look further into that actually
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