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VSEPR_VOID
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Red Phosphorus Source
https://www.amazon.com/Match-Striker-Sheets-Strike-Regular/d...
I just think that I will leave this here.
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
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G-Coupled
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Wow - that's...something.
Doesn't seem a bad price, either. I think they might only ship in the US though.
[Edited on 19-12-2019 by G-Coupled]
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SWIM
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If anybody tries recovering phosphorous from these please do a write-up.
I've been meaning to do the same for A + B finger flash powder but have been putting it off because I've got red P and don't use it much.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Magic-Tricks-A-B-FINGER-FLASH-Flash... (I believe this is Armstrong's mixture components, but haven't bought any to test)
There are clearly a lot of posters on here who either can't, or don't want to, buy red P from chemical suppliers but would still like to get a bit OTC
for this or that project.
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B(a)P
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Doesn't seem a bad price, either. I think they might only ship in the US though.
Yeah, they don't ship to Australia unfortunately.
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beerwiz
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Just buy plain Phosphorus, it is white. Then heat it to 250C, it will turn into red phosphorus.
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Loptr
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That's actually pretty interesting.
"Question everything generally thought to be obvious." - Dieter Rams
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SWIM
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And is white phosphorous easier to get where you are?
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beerwiz
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I would make the phosphorus if needed. Take a phosphorus salt like the Phosphorus chloride or the trichloride, or the pentachloride (PCl5) and
dissolve it in water. Then add a stoichiometric amount of metal powder like Zinc, Iron, etc. The phosphorus will precipitate out and the metal powder
will take on the salt (exchange reaction).
Apparenly Phosphorus comes in some interesting colors: "Colourless, waxy white, yellow, scarlet, red, violet, and black." It probably starts out as
black, then turns white, yellow, scarlet, red, and violet by heating.
[Edited on 19-12-2019 by beerwiz]
[Edited on 19-12-2019 by beerwiz]
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woelen
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@beerwiz: You have no idea at all of the chemistry of phosphorus. Phosphorus is not a metal and does not form salts of sulfate, chloride etc.
Making phosphorus at home from easily available materials (where I live you can easily buy phosphates and phosphites, both of which are quite boring
chemicals) is very challenging. Only a few members over here managed to get phosphorus from such materials.
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garphield
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Quote: Originally posted by beerwiz  | I would make the phosphorus if needed. Take a phosphorus salt like the chloride, sulfate, acetate, etc and dissolve it in water. Then add a
stoichiometric amount of metal powder like Zinc, Iron, etc. The phosphorus will precipitate out and the metal powder will take on the salt (exchange
reaction).
Apparenly Phosphorus comes in some interesting colors: "Colourless, waxy white, yellow, scarlet, red, violet, and black." It probably starts out as
black, then turns white, yellow, scarlet, red, and violet by heating.
[Edited on 19-12-2019 by beerwiz] |
I’m really not sure if I get this, phosphorus has a few chlorides but they react in contact with water and I can’t find anything on phosphorus
sulfate or acetate on Google. I know there are many easily available phosphate salts, but the phosphate is the anion so it will stay in solution and
the cation in the compound will precipitate out, plus phosphate isn’t elemental phosphorus anyways. I’m really new to this forum so I might be
missing something obvious but I really don’t think this would work.
Industrially phosphorus is made by heating phosphate salts with carbon and silica sand, but this requires very high heat so it’s probably not
practical for an amateur.
[Edited on 19-12-2019 by garphield]
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G-Coupled
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It's all about the weird allotropes IIRC, and that for example - only Red Phosphorus will catalyse certain reactions for some reason I'm sure is
fascinating.
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beerwiz
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Phosphorus does come as the PCl, PCl3, and PCl5.
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garphield
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You can get phosphorus chlorides but they hydrolyze on contact with water so you aren’t gonna be able to precipitate out phosphorus like with copper
chloride.
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G-Coupled
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| Quote: Originally posted by garphield | | You can get phosphorus chlorides but they hydrolyze on contact with water so you aren’t gonna be able to precipitate out phosphorus like with copper
chloride. |
Stupid question, but - hydrolyze into what?
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DavidJR
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Phosphoric acid and HCl
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Cou
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If you buy 10 of these, install trapdoors in front of your front door to trap the incoming no-knock DEA agents.
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Abromination
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| Quote: Originally posted by garphield | | Quote: Originally posted by beerwiz | I would make the phosphorus if needed. Take a phosphorus salt like the chloride, sulfate, acetate, etc and dissolve it in water. Then add a
stoichiometric amount of metal powder like Zinc, Iron, etc. The phosphorus will precipitate out and the metal powder will take on the salt (exchange
reaction).
Apparenly Phosphorus comes in some interesting colors: "Colourless, waxy white, yellow, scarlet, red, violet, and black." It probably starts out as
black, then turns white, yellow, scarlet, red, and violet by heating.
[Edited on 19-12-2019 by beerwiz] |
I’m really not sure if I get this, phosphorus has a few chlorides but they react in contact with water and I can’t find anything on phosphorus
sulfate or acetate on Google. I know there are many easily available phosphate salts, but the phosphate is the anion so it will stay in solution and
the cation in the compound will precipitate out, plus phosphate isn’t elemental phosphorus anyways. I’m really new to this forum so I might be
missing something obvious but I really don’t think this would work.
Industrially phosphorus is made by heating phosphate salts with carbon and silica sand, but this requires very high heat so it’s probably not
practical for an amateur.
[Edited on 19-12-2019 by garphield] |
Thats because salts with phosphorus in the cation dont exist, you cant have a phosphorus sulfate or acetate. Thats a pretty strictly ionic thing, and
phosphorus just cant do that.
List of materials made by ScienceMadness.org users:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nmJ8uq-h4IkXPxD5svnT...
--------------------------------
Elements Collected: H, Li, B, C, N, O, Mg, Al, Si, P, S, Fe, Ni, Cu, Zn, Ag, I, Au, Pb, Bi, Am
Last Acquired: B
Next: Na
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garphield
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Yeah, that’s why I think that guy’s idea of precipitating phosphorus out of solution with a reactive metal like what you might do with copper or
silver wouldn’t work, I just wasn’t 100% sure that you couldn’t have something with both phosphorus and an acetate group, like some sort of
ester. I was trying to explain why I thought that you couldn’t treat phosphorus like it was a metal - because it isn’t a metal - but I am very new
to this forum while that guy has like ninety posts so I didn’t just want to say that he was wrong because I know there is a rule against being
argumentative and I might have been just as wrong as he was. Sorry for not being clearer in my original post.
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Assured Fish
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| Quote: Originally posted by beerwiz | I would make the phosphorus if needed. Take a phosphorus salt like the Phosphorus chloride or the trichloride, or the pentachloride (PCl5) and
dissolve it in water. Then add a stoichiometric amount of metal powder like Zinc, Iron, etc. The phosphorus will precipitate out and the metal powder
will take on the salt (exchange reaction).
Apparenly Phosphorus comes in some interesting colors: "Colourless, waxy white, yellow, scarlet, red, violet, and black." It probably starts out as
black, then turns white, yellow, scarlet, red, and violet by heating.
[Edited on 19-12-2019 by beerwiz]
[Edited on 19-12-2019 by beerwiz] |
Jezuz you are misinformed, we have an entire thread dedicated to this topic and while it is possible for an amateur to make elemental phosphorous from
phosphates the process is hellishly difficult and dangerous requiring temperatures in excess of 800*c. Some members have succeded at this approach
but its pretty broudly recognised as an endevour for the few.
Also phosphorous halides are not salts, as neither phosphorous or halides are metallic (exceptions and amonium cations not included).
[Edited on 20-12-2019 by Assured Fish]
Sufficiently advanced science is indistinguishable from madness.
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SWIM
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| Quote: Originally posted by Cou | | If you buy 10 of these, install trapdoors in front of your front door to trap the incoming no-knock DEA agents. |
Buy ten of those and people will think you're a survivalist.
Don't panic. I buy red P in bags and it comes to me through customs with properly filled out customs forms and I haven't heard from the DEA yet.
Maybe they'll come by to bother me someday, but I doubt they're going to go after purchasers of match strikers before they come after all the people
like me out there.
Note: I don't buy it by the kilo, more like 100 to a few hundred grams at once.
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itsafineday
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I've really come to detest amazon and found these on ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-8-x-11-Match-Strike-Paper-Strike...
Just as SWIM said it's survival gear.
I am seeking to level up my Chem skills. Corrections welcome! All mentorship in madness appreciated.
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Abromination
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| Quote: Originally posted by garphield | | Yeah, that’s why I think that guy’s idea of precipitating phosphorus out of solution with a reactive metal like what you might do with copper or
silver wouldn’t work, I just wasn’t 100% sure that you couldn’t have something with both phosphorus and an acetate group, like some sort of
ester. I was trying to explain why I thought that you couldn’t treat phosphorus like it was a metal - because it isn’t a metal - but I am very new
to this forum while that guy has like ninety posts so I didn’t just want to say that he was wrong because I know there is a rule against being
argumentative and I might have been just as wrong as he was. Sorry for not being clearer in my original post. |
You are fine and correct, you seem informed enough mate.
Post number means very little here nowadays.
List of materials made by ScienceMadness.org users:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nmJ8uq-h4IkXPxD5svnT...
--------------------------------
Elements Collected: H, Li, B, C, N, O, Mg, Al, Si, P, S, Fe, Ni, Cu, Zn, Ag, I, Au, Pb, Bi, Am
Last Acquired: B
Next: Na
-------------- |
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PirateDocBrown
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| Quote: Originally posted by SWIM | | Quote: Originally posted by Cou | | If you buy 10 of these, install trapdoors in front of your front door to trap the incoming no-knock DEA agents. |
Buy ten of those and people will think you're a survivalist.
Don't panic. I buy red P in bags and it comes to me through customs with properly filled out customs forms and I haven't heard from the DEA yet.
Maybe they'll come by to bother me someday, but I doubt they're going to go after purchasers of match strikers before they come after all the people
like me out there.
Note: I don't buy it by the kilo, more like 100 to a few hundred grams at once. |
From what country?
Phlogiston manufacturer/supplier.
For all your phlogiston needs.
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finetune
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I once recovered some rP from matchbox striking surfaces by different manufacturers out of curiosity.
Depending on the glue used, slightly wet the surface with acetone or dH2O and simply scrap it of with a spatula. Just dont wet it too much or you will
have more cellulose contamination in the collected solid.
Wash the collected solid with acetone and water, followed by a H2SO4/dichromate cleaning of the crude rP.
After washing with water, you are left with pretty pure red phosphorus.
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SWIM
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Got some from Poland via Ebay earlier this year.
Got some from Estonia a couple years ago too.
Red P gets posted on Ebay intermittently.
Usually called amorphous phosphorous.
That's what they called what I bought from Poland.
I think there was some from Russia posted recently.
Here it is. https://www.ebay.com/itm/100g-phosphorus-7723-14-0-99-9-agri...
Just ordered 100 grams. let's see if it works, and if I get any visitors.
The listing does look a little vague, but the molecular weight is in the listing, so if it ain't phosphorus I ought to be able to return it.
I believe the "for fertilizers' line is cover to avoid getting reported or hassled. We'll see...
[Edited on 21-12-2019 by SWIM]
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