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Author: Subject: What is generally legal or illegal in Germany/EU?
Draeger
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[*] posted on 1-2-2020 at 06:12
What is generally legal or illegal in Germany/EU?


So, since I'm having problems with finding information about what is legal and what is not legal if you are a hobbyist, I guess I just want to ask for your experiences and/or what you've heard.
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Tsjerk
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[*] posted on 1-2-2020 at 07:28


One of the more specific questions I have seen today... This question can be answered with only one answer; whatever is not specificied by the law to be illegal is legal.

Unspecific questions have unspecific answers.
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[*] posted on 1-2-2020 at 11:45


This would be a good starting point
https://echa.europa.eu/substances-restricted-under-reach
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G-Coupled
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[*] posted on 1-2-2020 at 21:49


Quote: Originally posted by Draeger  
So, since I'm having problems with finding information about what is legal and what is not legal if you are a hobbyist, I guess I just want to ask for your experiences and/or what you've heard.


A surprising amount of stuff is perfectly legal for home hobbyists to own and use in the EU, even notoriously 'listed' reagents like Acetic Anhydride for example.

The trick seems to mainly be finding someone willing to sell these items to you, and a surprising variety of stuff can be found on well known auction sites etc. for a start, if you look.

[Edited on 2-2-2020 by G-Coupled]
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Draeger
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[*] posted on 2-2-2020 at 05:09


Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
One of the more specific questions I have seen today... This question can be answered with only one answer; whatever is not specificied by the law to be illegal is legal.

Unspecific questions have unspecific answers.

Sorry, I just didn't know how to detail it any more than that.

Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
This would be a good starting point
https://echa.europa.eu/substances-restricted-under-reach

Thanks. I'll take a good look into the list.

Quote: Originally posted by G-Coupled  
Quote: Originally posted by Draeger  
So, since I'm having problems with finding information about what is legal and what is not legal if you are a hobbyist, I guess I just want to ask for your experiences and/or what you've heard.


A surprising amount of stuff is perfectly legal for home hobbyists to own and use in the EU, even notoriously 'listed' reagents like Acetic Anhydride for example.

The trick seems to mainly be finding someone willing to sell these items to you, and a surprising variety of stuff can be found on well known auction sites etc. for a start, if you look.

[Edited on 2-2-2020 by G-Coupled]

Which sites do you know that sell that? I've, so far, only found a single website that sells large amounts of toxic things and more rare chemicals, but I can't find any other websites.

I was also wondering; which chemicals can you make at home legally? I'm guessing toxic and carcinogenic things would be illegal?
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Tsjerk
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[*] posted on 2-2-2020 at 05:44


Only very few chemicals are absolutely illegal to produce/pocess. The troubles start when questions are raised about what your intentions are. Did you make that drug precursor because you were interested in the chemistry or did you make it to produce drugs?

In the EU there are very few examples were the defendant has to prove his innocence. As far as I know owning chemicals does not require proving innocence.

Summary: as long as you don't make explosives or drugs (both are not allowed, in any amount), and more important; you don't have the intention to do so, you will be OK.
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Draeger
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[*] posted on 2-2-2020 at 07:10


Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
Only very few chemicals are absolutely illegal to produce/pocess. The troubles start when questions are raised about what your intentions are. Did you make that drug precursor because you were interested in the chemistry or did you make it to produce drugs?

In the EU there are very few examples were the defendant has to prove his innocence. As far as I know owning chemicals does not require proving innocence.

Summary: as long as you don't make explosives or drugs (both are not allowed, in any amount), and more important; you don't have the intention to do so, you will be OK.

Ah, alright. Thank you!
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sodium_stearate
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[*] posted on 2-2-2020 at 11:37
Zyklon B


Try getting some of that and watch what happens! :D



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B(a)P
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[*] posted on 2-2-2020 at 11:53


Quote: Originally posted by Draeger  
Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
One of the more specific questions I have seen today... This question can be answered with only one answer; whatever is not specificied by the law to be illegal is legal.

Unspecific questions have unspecific answers.

Sorry, I just didn't know how to detail it any more than that.

Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
This would be a good starting point
https://echa.europa.eu/substances-restricted-under-reach

Thanks. I'll take a good look into the list.



Quote: Originally posted by G-Coupled  
Quote: Originally posted by Draeger  
So, since I'm having problems with finding information about what is legal and what is not legal if you are a hobbyist, I guess I just want to ask for your experiences and/or what you've heard.


A surprising amount of stuff is perfectly legal for home hobbyists to own and use in the EU, even notoriously 'listed' reagents like Acetic Anhydride for example.

The trick seems to mainly be finding someone willing to sell these items to you, and a surprising variety of stuff can be found on well known auction sites etc. for a start, if you look.

[Edited on 2-2-2020 by G-Coupled]

Which sites do you know that sell that? I've, so far, only found a single website that sells large amounts of toxic things and more rare chemicals, but I can't find any other websites.

I was also wondering; which chemicals can you make at home legally? I'm guessing toxic and carcinogenic things would be illegal?


Toxicity and carcinogenic effect are rarely drivers for regulating compounds.
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karlos³
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[*] posted on 2-2-2020 at 12:12


Quote: Originally posted by sodium_stearate  
Try getting some of that and watch what happens! :D

All the lice will drop dead?
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[*] posted on 2-2-2020 at 23:18


sodium_stearate> surprisingly still in production under name "Uragan D2" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B#Legacy
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Draeger
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[*] posted on 3-2-2020 at 08:23


Since there seems to be special regulations on mercury, cadmium and lead, when are those legal or illegal? Sorry if it's obvious, but I really want to make sure I understood it correctly.
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[*] posted on 3-2-2020 at 12:59


Quote: Originally posted by Draeger  
Since there seems to be special regulations on mercury, cadmium and lead, when are those legal or illegal? Sorry if it's obvious, but I really want to make sure I understood it correctly.


Just don't dispose of them down the kitchen sink, and you'll be fine.
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Draeger
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[*] posted on 3-2-2020 at 14:29


Quote: Originally posted by G-Coupled  
Quote: Originally posted by Draeger  
Since there seems to be special regulations on mercury, cadmium and lead, when are those legal or illegal? Sorry if it's obvious, but I really want to make sure I understood it correctly.


Just don't dispose of them down the kitchen sink, and you'll be fine.

Alright. Thank you.
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Tsjerk
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[*] posted on 3-2-2020 at 14:56


Zyklon B is produced on a multi ton scale every day. It is such an important chemical building block it can't be abonded because of a bad name.

[Edited on 3-2-2020 by Tsjerk]
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sodium_stearate
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[*] posted on 3-2-2020 at 15:45
Lice


Well they sure put Zyklon B to good use
in Germany in the early 1940s! What with all
of those nasty lice to exterminate, it sure came
in handy!;)


EDIT(woelen): Serious warning!

This post at best is a very bad joke, which easily
can be interpreted in an extremely wrong way. It
might be something much worse than a very bad
joke. This is a serious warning to "sodium stearate"!
One more such issue and you will be banned
permanently! :mad:

[Edited on 5-2-20 by woelen]




"Opportunity is missed by most people
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Tsjerk
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[*] posted on 3-2-2020 at 16:06


Quote: Originally posted by sodium_stearate  
Well they sure put Zyklon B to good use
in Germany in the early 1940s! What with all
of those nasty lice to exterminate, it sure came
in handy!;)


I personally think this is a ban worthy post.

Sodium_stearate is an asshole who hasn't contributed to chemistry for at least a year an

Nothing wrong with HCN as is.
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G-Coupled
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[*] posted on 3-2-2020 at 18:12


Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
Quote: Originally posted by sodium_stearate  
Well they sure put Zyklon B to good use
in Germany in the early 1940s! What with all
of those nasty lice to exterminate, it sure came
in handy!;)


I personally think this is a ban worthy post.

Sodium_stearate is an asshole who hasn't contributed to chemistry for at least a year an

Nothing wrong with HCN as is.


Is it...'hate speech'? {gasp}
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[*] posted on 4-2-2020 at 04:22


Quote: Originally posted by G-Coupled  
Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
Quote: Originally posted by sodium_stearate  
Well they sure put Zyklon B to good use
in Germany in the early 1940s! What with all
of those nasty lice to exterminate, it sure came
in handy!;)


I personally think this is a ban worthy post.

Sodium_stearate is an asshole who hasn't contributed to chemistry for at least a year an

Nothing wrong with HCN as is.


Is it...'hate speech'? {gasp}
Quote:
Godwin's law (or Godwin's rule of Hitler analogies)[1][2] is an Internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1";[2][3] that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Adolf Hitler or his deeds, the point at which effectively the discussion or thread often ends.
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sodium_stearate
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[*] posted on 4-2-2020 at 07:24
off topic stuff now


Why all of the "off topic" stuff all of a sudden?
The O.P. originally asked about the relative legality
of certain chemicals in the E.U. and Germany.

Why all of a sudden the reference to some
delusional leader in history? Where did that come
from?:cool:




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because it is dressed in overalls and it
looks like work" T.A. Edison
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[*] posted on 4-2-2020 at 07:53


@sodium_stearate: You've got a moderator warning from me, see your previous post in this thread!

[Edited on 5-2-20 by woelen]




The art of wondering makes life worth living...
Want to wonder? Look at https://woelen.homescience.net
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karlos³
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[*] posted on 4-2-2020 at 12:06


@woelen, I am sorry, I will abstain from all these off-topic remarks in the future.

@OP: have you checked the supplier site of the SM wiki?
Here: http://www.sciencemadness.org/smwiki/index.php/Lab_suppliers
I am located in the same country and used a lot of them already, they are all fine.

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G-Coupled
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wink.gif posted on 4-2-2020 at 14:21


It *did* kinda Godwin TBH. :D

[Edited on 4-2-2020 by G-Coupled]
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[*] posted on 5-2-2020 at 04:36


In short:

a) Narcotic Law https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/btmg_1981/ the attachments (Anlagen)

b) GüG Kategorie 1 substances https://www.bfarm.de/DE/Bundesopiumstelle/Grundstoffe/_node....

c) Neue-psychoaktive-Stoffe-Gesetz https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/npsg/

d) Verordnung zur Sanktionsbewehrung gemeinschafts- oder unionsrechtlicher Verordnungen auf dem Gebiet der Chemikaliensicherheit = REACH and Co. https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/chemsanktionsv/index.html...

e) 98/2013 https://www.umweltpakt.bayern.de/chemikalien/recht/eu/362/ex...
with a new regulation https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELE... where now even sulfuric acid is regulated. Not more than 40% for the public....

bj68

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karlos³
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[*] posted on 5-2-2020 at 05:44


Yeah but we can buy that regulated stuff easily outside of the country, inside of the EU.
We are still able to get almost everything easily.
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