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Texium
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[*] posted on 10-3-2020 at 12:26


Quote: Originally posted by Syn the Sizer  
I am the sort who would rather have what I need on hand, I found with my electronics hobby I would decided what I wanted to build then order my parts and wait, by the time I got them I forgot what I ordered them for lol.
Yes, that's exactly how I am. I come across papers or videos sometimes that sound really interesting, and I'm always more motivated to try out the procedures if I have everything I need on hand already and don't have to wait for a chemical to come in or have to synthesize all of the precursors before I can get started.



Come check out the Official Sciencemadness Wiki
They're not really active right now, but here's my YouTube channel and my blog.
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Syn the Sizer
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[*] posted on 10-3-2020 at 14:55


Exactly, I mean synthesizing the precursors is fun and all but when you have a project in mind that's how many extra steps. With electronics its not as bad because some things you can build a suitable workaround until you get the parts, I used to code my Arduino to simulate logic IC's among other things, it works great to simulate a 555 time, but I digress.

I do plan on synthesizing what I can for now but hope to start being able to buy what I can't, if that makes sense.
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[*] posted on 10-3-2020 at 16:32


Quote: Originally posted by Syn the Sizer  
Great suggestions I do have cold packs, I recently made some AlCl3 for something to do lol, as well as extracted ASA from commercial tablets. In Saskatchewan I am having issues finding OTC sources for stuff, Canadian Tire has some stuff like solvents, I am going to have to check a garden store wen the weather starts getting nicer.

Edit: I should mention the weather has been really nice here so I was able to do some stuff outside, I didn't do those in my kitchen.

[Edited on 10-3-2020 by Syn the Sizer]


I'm in sask, what you looking for? and where you abouts? can PM if you want.
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[*] posted on 10-3-2020 at 17:17


Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  

I'm in sask, what you looking for? and where you abouts? can PM if you want.


Really, I'm in S'toon, I have been looking for sulfuric acid drain cleaner, copper sulfate, among other. I realize more will probably be available come spring when the snow melt and people are getting pools and gardens set up. I still have to try Home Depot and Early's.

If you also want to PM you can.


[Edited on 11-3-2020 by Syn the Sizer]
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[*] posted on 11-3-2020 at 17:33


next time you go to Regina by hw16 bring a list and come for a coffee.

I have a surplus of copper sulfate I'd be happy to share and a few other non ship able things to give ya a healthy jump start.

Mcmun&yates has sulfuric drain cleaner, peavy has a good strong cleaning ammonia with out any garbage in it.

Health stores with soap making is a great source for KOH, NaOH, Glycerin, Magnesium oxide, and a good few other goodies.

Wally world you can get tech grade sodium bromide, not much cheaper by ebay.
the town near me has a fair bit of good chems in it actually.

I scored several liters of formalin!
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[*] posted on 11-3-2020 at 21:20


Awesome thanks a lot man. I have been wanting to get KOH but didn't realize you could buy it OTC, I saw the sodium bromide at Walmart but didn't have the money for it along with the other stuff I needed. I found my glycerine from when I used to vape, 350ml unopened bottle. I will check around again for things.
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[*] posted on 12-3-2020 at 08:24


It's probably good to prioritize finding a source for dichloromethane. It's very hard to synthesize but it's a very useful solvent—much less flammable than comparable nonpolar solvents like Et2O, EtOAc or toluene.

Oxalic acid and paraformaldehyde are probably around; you'll want them.

You also probably want magnesium, chromium, manganese, copper and zinc. Only magnesium need be metallic for most purposes. Lithium (metallic), silver, tungsten, indium, tin and lead are harder to find but can be very useful. I assume you know where to get iron.

[Edited on 12-3-2020 by clearly_not_atara]




[Edited on 04-20-1969 by clearly_not_atara]
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[*] posted on 12-3-2020 at 16:15


hot water tank electrodes for aluminium tanks is magnesium! I have a massive chunk here.
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[*] posted on 12-3-2020 at 16:27


I have checked a few places for oxalic acid in the paint and deck stain section and I can't find any, when I ask for wood bleach, they get me some environmentally friendly crap. I have found a decent distributor who has DCM for cheap but with delivery charges and minimum orders that out of the question until I find a part time job.
I plan on getting metals and whatnot but at the moment I can only really afford OTC stuff, most distributors have large minimum package sizes, minimum orders and outrageous shipping costs and I am just a student on student loan who has been having a bitch of a time finding work.
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[*] posted on 12-3-2020 at 16:42


Much better to buy salicylic acid. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=mystic+moments+salicylic+acid&...
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[*] posted on 12-3-2020 at 18:11


Quote: Originally posted by Cou  
Much better to buy salicylic acid. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=mystic+moments+salicylic+acid&...


I just recrystallized a bunch of ASA I extracted lol, next to salicylic acid.
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[*] posted on 13-3-2020 at 02:52


what glass wear do you have

and I have a couple eBay suppliers who have proven to be cheap and honest.
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[*] posted on 13-3-2020 at 09:34


As far as glassware goes I have some, Liebig condenser, Allihn condenser, Graham condenser, and vigreaux condenser, 2 still heads, 2 105o adapters, 1-75o adapter, 1-1L 1 neck RB, 1-1L 2 neck RB, 1-500mL 3 neck RB, and 1-250mL 2 neck RB. 24/40 joint. 1-250mL sep funnel, stoppers, keck clips and 2 thermometers. I got them from Ding Glassware on Amazon, for $260CDN. I also have some beakers, and a fritted buchner with 1L EM flask, I don't have a vac pump but I use saran wrap over the top like a diaphragm and press on it it, pushes liquid through. I do plan on getting a vac pump, I would like a refrigeration vac pump, most are designed to take acid vapours. I figured if I had the money the first investment should be glassware then worry about reagents later, reagents are almost useless without reaction vessels. I also have hot plate/stirrer, a couple stands, titanium stir bars.
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[*] posted on 13-3-2020 at 09:51


@Xeon would you be so kind as to bless us with that knowledge
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[*] posted on 13-3-2020 at 17:36


Refrigeration pumps do not take acid at all!!! need to use a good scrubber, if you have a water cooler that some one is tossing and it isn't a pelt type you can mod the compressor to run fine, still need a scrubber but it is a cheap quiet moderately deep (25inches of Mercury) vacuum pump.


If the cooler is 134a just hack it out! (They sell the gas as air duster here <_< ) Wash the compressor out with isopropyl alcohol, you want to get all the traces of the old lubricant out of there, then charge it with 150ml to 250ml of 30 weight oil.

Make a catch jar for the outlet to recover any spit oil and simply recycle back into the suction.

One day if you wanted we could build one up. Hell I have a compressor laying about I'm sure.

A cheap rotary vane unit off ebay, should pull 500 microns nominal, most will do better 25 microns average. Same warning though, a good cold trap and gas scrubber will make for a happy long lived pump, that or very frequent oil changes, and warming it up helps too.

With that kit you're pretty well set, the vigreaux isn't a condenser per say rather a rectifying column.

A simple "cryo-trap", can be made with some pipe and scrubbies and a Styrofoam cup or a thermos, fill it with 1, 2, difloroethan (152a) or commonly known as air duster. Or a second modified water cooler, by soldering the coils on a larger chunk of copper pipe then embedding in spray foam, fill it with alcohol of choice then insert the trap in the cold bath.

[Edited on 14-3-2020 by XeonTheMGPony]
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[*] posted on 13-3-2020 at 19:55


When I worked at Gateway we had vac pumps that were designed for acid vapours, maybe they were specialized because we did a lot of old Safeway systems and the Safeway in P.A. had major acid issues in the system, it was still running R22, they had to replace charcoal filter dryers like crazy, I am sure you know how much of a hassle it is.

R134a is mostly harmless still a GW issue with a GWP of ~550 but an ODP of 0. Refrigerants is one of the industries I am considering after school, 2020 HCFC are fazed out, goodbye R22. There still aren't any really suitable replacements. CO2 is what some businesses are moving to, I used to work on a CO2 system in a newer Sobeys here. The problem is CO2 has a super high standing pressure so if the system goes down you either need a 2nd system keeping the receiver tank really cold so the gas migrates there and keep pressure down, as well as a pressure release so you don't blow the system up. CO2 is cheap if you lose your charge and only has a GWP of 1 and no ODP, but to recharge an entire grocery store every few months is a pain, plus you need to slowly charge the system up to 150 psi or you form dry ice in the lines which prevents further charging until it thaws, once you hit 150 psi let 'er rip. So from an environmental standpoint its a great option but in practice it isn't.

Yah I would definitely be up for building a pump at some point, I have seen a few used in videos on Youtube.

Good catch on the vigreaux, I meant column lol. At the moment I have nothing I need to fractionally distill so I have it wrapped and packed away, same as the Graham condenser.
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[*] posted on 14-3-2020 at 04:38


Quote: Originally posted by Syn the Sizer  
When I worked at Gateway we had vac pumps that were designed for acid vapours, maybe they were specialized because we did a lot of old Safeway systems and the Safeway in P.A. had major acid issues in the system, it was still running R22, they had to replace charcoal filter dryers like crazy, I am sure you know how much of a hassle it is.

R134a is mostly harmless still a GW issue with a GWP of ~550 but an ODP of 0. Refrigerants is one of the industries I am considering after school, 2020 HCFC are fazed out, goodbye R22. There still aren't any really suitable replacements. CO2 is what some businesses are moving to, I used to work on a CO2 system in a newer Sobeys here. The problem is CO2 has a super high standing pressure so if the system goes down you either need a 2nd system keeping the receiver tank really cold so the gas migrates there and keep pressure down, as well as a pressure release so you don't blow the system up. CO2 is cheap if you lose your charge and only has a GWP of 1 and no ODP, but to recharge an entire grocery store every few months is a pain, plus you need to slowly charge the system up to 150 psi or you form dry ice in the lines which prevents further charging until it thaws, once you hit 150 psi let 'er rip. So from an environmental standpoint its a great option but in practice it isn't.

Yah I would definitely be up for building a pump at some point, I have seen a few used in videos on Youtube.

Good catch on the vigreaux, I meant column lol. At the moment I have nothing I need to fractionally distill so I have it wrapped and packed away, same as the Graham condenser.


IN those systems with moisture you'd get trace HCL, but that would mostly been reacted to the copper (Hence copper plating in the compressor. And in HFC type systems it is a weak organic acid from the POE oils, R-22 was common for Alkylbenzen type oils.

I have 4 pounds R-22 (2 Virgin) and some R-12 I keep for personal use.

I'm a personal fan of an Ammonia primary with a glycol secondary, lets you keep the plant in a safe remote area that is easier to service and safe, given that topology Propane is amazing gas for the cycle, low heads, excellent oil transport, very good low end pressures, but in a world where people screw up operating a light switch they are terrified of every thing I lament!

For a few friends I converted their older air cons to R-290 with a glycol secondary loop and strict instructions on what never to do, last I heard they where doing well.

CO2 is a royal pain for reasons you listed above, massive wasted space for buffer tanks and the high pressures demand very good seals on every thing.

I really dislike DX systems now days, when ever I can I push for a glycol secondary optimize that, then any repairs inside the building become way simpler for end user, and then the plant can be made service tech friendly, and much less piping to sod up.

But back to the topic at hand, you remember how often you had to flush and replace the oil in that vac pump? Oft! I'd preheat mine with the torch then fire it up, really helped keep the oil from water logging on DX chillers when they had an HX rupture (The one caveat of glycol secondaries, never, never go cheap on the main HXs!!!)
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[*] posted on 14-3-2020 at 08:48


Yep, and the previous company that looked after that Safeway didn't care about the system and really let it go to crap. The sad thing was that was one of the Franchised stores and not corporate so most of the cost of repairs fell on the owner of the store and not Safeway itself, It was a PA store so the store had poor revenue and the system continued to degrade. Gateway took over and it was to the point of needing replacement, it leaked like crazy and full of acid, I wonder if it still runs like that. The didn't like paying for maintenance either so they only got their condensers cleaned once a year, when I was a new employee I had that task. the fins were so clogged with feathers and other organic solids I couldn't get them fully cleaned and they had 3 sprinklers running on it at all times to keep it cool. Really the store should have been shut down.

I agree ammonia is a great options specially for industrial application and skating rinks, and of course a separate glycol circuit is a must, with ammonia you want a remote-ish compressor house, the last thing you need is a factory or skating rink full of ammonia vapour.

I have heard stories of people supplementing pool heating with heat from A/C condensers in a pseudo heat pump, but of course a leak is inevitable and you always ended up with chlorinated H2O in the system and a huge repair cost. How would glycol work? At least if a leak sprung you would just end up with water in the glycol loop though glycol in the pool might not be good, and I guess like you said there is always the risk of a glycol leak into the refrigerant.

I never had to use my pump so I never changed oil but the guys who did changed theirs monthly at a minimum. In school we changed the oil once but we also only used them a few times, I think they just got us to change it as part of the training,
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[*] posted on 15-3-2020 at 04:29


Quote: Originally posted by Syn the Sizer  
Yep, and the previous company that looked after that Safeway didn't care about the system and really let it go to crap. The sad thing was that was one of the Franchised stores and not corporate so most of the cost of repairs fell on the owner of the store and not Safeway itself, It was a PA store so the store had poor revenue and the system continued to degrade. Gateway took over and it was to the point of needing replacement, it leaked like crazy and full of acid, I wonder if it still runs like that. The didn't like paying for maintenance either so they only got their condensers cleaned once a year, when I was a new employee I had that task. the fins were so clogged with feathers and other organic solids I couldn't get them fully cleaned and they had 3 sprinklers running on it at all times to keep it cool. Really the store should have been shut down.

I agree ammonia is a great options specially for industrial application and skating rinks, and of course a separate glycol circuit is a must, with ammonia you want a remote-ish compressor house, the last thing you need is a factory or skating rink full of ammonia vapour.

I have heard stories of people supplementing pool heating with heat from A/C condensers in a pseudo heat pump, but of course a leak is inevitable and you always ended up with chlorinated H2O in the system and a huge repair cost. How would glycol work? At least if a leak sprung you would just end up with water in the glycol loop though glycol in the pool might not be good, and I guess like you said there is always the risk of a glycol leak into the refrigerant.

I never had to use my pump so I never changed oil but the guys who did changed theirs monthly at a minimum. In school we changed the oil once but we also only used them a few times, I think they just got us to change it as part of the training,


It is called De-super heating, you take advantage of the high discharge temp to perform ancillary heating jobs and at the same time economize your Carnot cycle.

It is a win win for saving energy at the cost of slight complexity increase and an additional failure point.

One guy came up with a creative solution to isolate the circuits by using a thermo siphon set up. used a high boiling point substance, can't remember, so in the event of a water side rupture it would never make it to the discharge side exchanger.

Poor vac pump maintenance is endemic it seems, preheating helped to reduce the need of it, and for normal system maintenance there isn't any real contamination, but for a bad burn out or heavy moisture in the system you should change it out after as even if you can't see it it is loaded with contaminants that will gank the pump! Why would they care when company issued, as they will just ask it be replaced.

Well maintained a good vac pump is for life! Unless you have meth heads around, then it is for as long as you keep armed guard over it.
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[*] posted on 16-3-2020 at 08:59


That's a great idea, keeps the unit isolated from moisture.

I always thought they should change the oil more often too. Many vapours are soluble in the oil. I could see though how heating the pump would reduce the contamination, specially if you were only pulling down a small system and not running it long enough to build its own heat. The heat plus lower viscosity would reduce solubility.

I prefer to keep my equipment in top shape, even if its company supplied. When I worked at the Cat dealer I was the main hose assembler for for several branches. I hated when people would use my tools because they didn't respect them. I would come back on a Monday if I didn't work the weekend and my tools would be all over, sometimes missing, my hose protractor bent or busted. I didn't pay for them but I needed them for my job. I was happy when I got moved to core inspection/returns I had a locked drawer for my tools and any specialty tools were in the tool crib.
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[*] posted on 15-4-2020 at 22:33


Which nickle salt should I get? Nickle (II) chloride or nickle (II) sulfate? Is one more useful than the other. The prices are basically the same by mass. Would the chloride be better because I would get more moles of ionic Ni?
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[*] posted on 16-4-2020 at 05:17


Depends on what you want it for.... If it was me, I would go for Nickel(II)acetate.


/CJ




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[*] posted on 16-4-2020 at 08:15


Quote: Originally posted by Corrosive Joeseph  

Depends on what you want it for.... If it was me, I would go for Nickel(II)acetate.


/CJ


I was also considering Nickle (II) acetate. I am just building my reagent list and I don't have any nickle salts so was considering which is most useful.

Thanks for the input.
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[*] posted on 16-4-2020 at 09:10


If you are planning any reductions using nickel boride P-1 or the (pseudo)Urushibara, it has proven to be the most active.


/CJ




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[*] posted on 16-4-2020 at 10:59


A chemistry lab without concentrated sulfuric acid is like a Mediterranean kitchen without olive oil. xD

[Edited on 16-4-2020 by Cou]
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