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CouchHatter
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[*] posted on 17-4-2020 at 14:16
digging a hole with explosives


I wonder if anybody has used an explosive they made for excavation of rocks or trees. I'm reading through Urbanski's chemistry and technology of explosives, with the goal in mind of finding an ideal compound to controlledly detonate yard obstructions. I'm digging a vertical hole and expect to encounter many rocks. I would also like to hear of other 'required reading' material, because the only thing that comes to my mind comcerning practical explosives is the anarchist cookbook which is obviously better for blowing yourself up than not. I've looked around this section of the forum and not found anything like this, but maybe I'm not looking for the right search terms.
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morganbw
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[*] posted on 17-4-2020 at 15:13


In a younger life I worked construction for quite a few years. It was mostly pipeline but it also included small faced tunnels.
I have a lot of experience drilling and blasting in ditches/tunnels/and tunnel pits. Actually even some underwater blasting.

This was done with commercial explosives of several different types along with several variants of blasting caps.

Check the legality of it in your area. You might be able to do it with commercial explosives. If nothing else you may be able to hire a contractor with the proper licensing.

I would suggest you not do this with homemade explosives.
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B(a)P
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[*] posted on 17-4-2020 at 19:22


I have used black powder to make fence post holes. It was done with the use of a post hole gun, which consists of a 400 mm barrel open at one end and a small hole for a fuse at the other. The post hole gun is filled with powder then plugged will clay and pushed into the ground. It makes a hole about 0.4 m in diameter and 0.6 to 1 m deep depending on lithology.
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Pyro_cat
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[*] posted on 18-4-2020 at 01:41


Explosives are useful but I suggest checking out how the coral was built.

https://historydaily.org/how-did-one-man-build-the-coral-cas...

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B(a)P
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[*] posted on 18-4-2020 at 01:53


Perpetual motion would definitely be a better option for moving earth. If only he had written down how he had achieved it........
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MineMan
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[*] posted on 18-4-2020 at 15:58


Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
I have used black powder to make fence post holes. It was done with the use of a post hole gun, which consists of a 400 mm barrel open at one end and a small hole for a fuse at the other. The post hole gun is filled with powder then plugged will clay and pushed into the ground. It makes a hole about 0.4 m in diameter and 0.6 to 1 m deep depending on lithology.


I don’t understand. How does the BP not fall, and how do you plug it with clay? In the west we would not be able to push it into the ground. Interesting though!
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SWIM
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[*] posted on 18-4-2020 at 17:01


There's a thread on here from last year about explosives to clear some trees.

A tree had fallen over and was resting on two others and a dangerous mess to tackle with a chainsaw.

Not having much luck finding it though. Anybody here remember that thread?

EDIT: It's titled, Most appropriate material to topple a tree.

[Edited on 19-4-2020 by SWIM]




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Pyro_cat
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[*] posted on 18-4-2020 at 20:49


Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
Perpetual motion would definitely be a better option for moving earth. If only he had written down how he had achieved it........


But there are videos and web pages showing real clever ways he made tripods with tree trunks and lifted those heavy stones himself.
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Pyro_cat
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[*] posted on 18-4-2020 at 20:52


This film is about Project Sedan, a Plowshare Program test, that promoted the application of nuclear explosives to develop peaceful uses for atomic energy, was conducted at the Nevada National Security Site on July 6, 1962. This cratering explosion, with a yield of 104 kilotons, displaced 12 million tons of earth and formed a 1,280-foot-diameter by 320-foot-deep crater in the desert floor, releasing seismic energy equivalent to 4.75 on the Richter Scale. The purpose of the Sedan explosion was to determine if nuclear devices could be used as cratering or earth moving mechanisms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7539BL4f4E
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Pyro_cat
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[*] posted on 18-4-2020 at 21:16


Quote: Originally posted by CouchHatter  
I'm digging a vertical hole and expect to encounter many rocks. .


You can bust up big ones.


Pan-Civil-3.jpg - 2.9MB

Non-explosive demolition agents are commercial that are an alternative to explosives and gas pressure blasting products in demolition, mining, and quarrying. To use non-explosive demolition agents in demolition or quarrying, holes are drilled in the base rock as they would be for use with conventional explosives. A slurry mixture of the non-explosive demolition agent and water is poured into the drill holes. Over the next few hours the slurry expands, cracking the rock in a pattern somewhat like the cracking that would occur from conventional explosives.

Search Non-explosive demolition agents

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Pyro_cat
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[*] posted on 18-4-2020 at 21:20


Expando is Safe, environmentally friendly, and is a non explosive rock splitting and concrete cutting solution.

EXPANDO is a cracking agent that comes in powder form, which when mixed with water expands. When poured into pre-drilled blast holes, produces an extreme pressure of 18,000 PSI.

After a few hours the tensile strength of the rock or concrete are overcome by the cracking agent. The rock or concrete then breaks following the pre- drilled hole pattern.

http://bhd.8ef.mwp.accessdomain.com/

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B(a)P
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[*] posted on 19-4-2020 at 01:37


Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
I have used black powder to make fence post holes. It was done with the use of a post hole gun, which consists of a 400 mm barrel open at one end and a small hole for a fuse at the other. The post hole gun is filled with powder then plugged will clay and pushed into the ground. It makes a hole about 0.4 m in diameter and 0.6 to 1 m deep depending on lithology.


I don’t understand. How does the BP not fall, and how do you plug it with clay? In the west we would not be able to push it into the ground. Interesting though!


They don't work well with soils of high sand, gravel and rock content. Imagine a pipe with one end welded closed. A small tube is welded into the side near the closed end for the fuse. The pipe is filled with black powder from the open end then when it is almost full push a piece of clay into the open end to block it. The open (clay plugged) end of the pipe gun is pushed into the ground with the blade of a tractor.
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Fulmen
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[*] posted on 19-4-2020 at 01:52


From what I can tell these expanding cements are basically regular portland cement containing an excess of dead-burned CaO / MgO.
Both have a large increase in volume as they are hydrated to hydroxides. And if fired at high temperatures they becomes less reactive, allowing the cement to set before this reaction takes place.




We're not banging rocks together here. We know how to put a man back together.
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CouchHatter
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[*] posted on 19-4-2020 at 09:06


Excellent and informative suggestions. From the other post about tree toppling, Vomaturge says that practical application discussions of explosives is not allowed - I didn't know this, but I can imagine why. I don't recall anything about it in the forum rules though, is that true?
Like therapist, I came here because I expected that safety would be put first in given advice. But unlike therapist, I have no subconscious wish to dabble with energetics if I don't need to. It sounds like there are plenty of other options available to me. Thank you all!
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MineMan
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[*] posted on 19-4-2020 at 17:32


I never liked the expanding grout stuff. I hear too many presentations about it during school.

Fire setting works ok.

I like my rock breaking solutions to be more energetic.

Shape charges work too.
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Steve s
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[*] posted on 19-4-2020 at 18:16


I was actually talking to a chap i know that does a bit of 'blasting' about something similar to this a few years back when i was doing some work that involved making fairly big square holes through very hard concrete footings.

I (and several others) ended up doing it the old fashioned manual way in the end but the chap in question did tell me how it could be done with explosives. Firstly a core hole is drilled in the center then a series of smaller holes are drilled around the core hole in the shape of the desired hole. To these holes the explosives are loaded and the holes plugged the charges are then detonated using different lengths of shock tube in order to allow the charges to detonate one after the other in an outward spiral direction. This was for horizontal holes but i see no reason why the same technique couldn't be used for vertical holes. However if you do have a lot of rocks and stones in there they will be traveling a some speed when they come out, unless of course they are vaporized by the explosion in which case you will have more of a crater than a hole.

Personally i'd hire a nice powerful two man operated post hole borer :)
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[*] posted on 19-4-2020 at 19:11


I found an old article on a black powder post hole gun at https://www.farmshow.com/view_articles.php?a_id=733

It claimed to produce about a 3 ft. deep and 12 in. in dia hole. I would think the gun would be propelled to 50ft or more into the air hence the rope. I do have some posts to put in. It would be a fun method but the holes would be near my old house and I don't want to frighten the neighbours and get arrested. Unfortunately unlicenced explosive hole digging is not allowed in the UK LOL

postholegun.JPG - 147kB




i am wg48 but not on my usual pc hence the temp handle.

Thank goodness for Fleming and the fungi.
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Steve s
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[*] posted on 20-4-2020 at 01:34


Quote: Originally posted by wg48temp9  
I found an old article on a black powder post hole gun at https://www.farmshow.com/view_articles.php?a_id=733

It claimed to produce about a 3 ft. deep and 12 in. in dia hole. I would think the gun would be propelled to 50ft or more into the air hence the rope. I do have some posts to put in. It would be a fun method but the holes would be near my old house and I don't want to frighten the neighbours and get arrested. Unfortunately unlicenced explosive hole digging is not allowed in the UK LOL



Yes, for experimental, educational demonstration purposes.......Not for practical use :D
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MineMan
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[*] posted on 20-4-2020 at 03:41


Looks like you have to hammer the gun 3 ft into the soil... I don’t see the purpose. I couldn’t even hammer it in 4 inches out here. Shape charges would be better. Water jacket them.
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Vomaturge
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[*] posted on 20-4-2020 at 09:42


For post holes, I'd say look for an equipment rental with one of those post pounders that mounts on a skid-steer and drives sharpened posts. Even in rocky ground, most of them will go in intact. Takes about 60 seconds per post, and is highly effective at killing vampire dinosaurs:D

[Edited on 20-4-2020 by Vomaturge]




I now have a YouTube channel. So far just electronics and basic High Voltage experimentation, but I'll hopefully have some chemistry videos soon.
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MineMan
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[*] posted on 20-4-2020 at 15:41


Quote: Originally posted by Vomaturge  
For post holes, I'd say look for an equipment rental with one of those post pounders that mounts on a skid-steer and drives sharpened posts. Even in rocky ground, most of them will go in intact. Takes about 60 seconds per post, and is highly effective at killing vampire dinosaurs:D

[Edited on 20-4-2020 by Vomaturge]


How much does a silver stake of that size cost..... way too much!
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Pyro_cat
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[*] posted on 25-4-2020 at 08:03


Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
I never liked the expanding grout stuff. I hear too many presentations about it during school.

Fire setting works ok.

I like my rock breaking solutions to be more energetic.

Shape charges work too.


I can imagine they wanted to push the new and "improved" rock breaking techniques and take the fun out of it.

I bet fire setting with the help of a leaf blower would work even better.

Small fire 4 logs and just the wind from the blower on idle gave me such a hot spot melted all the glass from the recycle bin into a blob real quick.

Years before as a kid I was hungry and the charcoal in the BBQ was taking forever so I used my moms hair dryer to speed it up and melted the tip.

She got really mad about that and I was like what, its fine. Did all kinds of dumber things all the time like taking things apart and not being able to put back together but I really got in trouble for that for some reason.

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[*] posted on 25-4-2020 at 12:58


250g ANFO per 1m³.
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