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Author: Subject: Retort & Stand Questions
Yttrium2
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[*] posted on 22-4-2020 at 19:13
Retort & Stand Questions


Does anyone know of how to use a retort stand? -- I mean is it different from a ring stand?


I'm worried that the cool ring will crack the warm/hot glass.

I am thinking of going with a retort

Still looking for the best link to a lab stand, or in this case a retort stand. -- I'm not sure what the best ones are. united nuclear ones seemed decent.


also, what about the united nuclear flex clamp? I could clamp it to the edge of my desk and avoid the ringstand all together if it'd support a few pounds.


thinking of going with the 125mL retort.


Comments?


retort.jpg - 17kB
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Sulaiman
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[*] posted on 23-4-2020 at 02:14


I like the retro look of a retort
but I can not see any use for one
Why do you want a retort?

If you heat a retort on a ring/retort stand the ring will get heated together with the retort.




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Yttrium2
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[*] posted on 23-4-2020 at 10:07


Distillation,

thinking of throwing an ice pack over the spout to aid in condensation.


I think it'll be my only piece of labware this time aside from 6 or so test tubes, and a dropper.



If anyone has a better idea of how to distill solvents without a water cooled condenser, let me know


i.e. - would a stoppered Erlenmeyer with a 25 ft polypropylene tube work better?
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SWIM
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[*] posted on 23-4-2020 at 11:11


If you've got 25 feet of tubing you've got a water cooled condenser. Just coil that tubing up in a large can or plastic tub full of water. You'll want the tubing to exit the bucket/tub/can through a hole in the bottom (seal with silicone or whatnot).

Or if you wait until there's cold weather you can just boil the solvents in an open pan in your room and collect the distillate off the inside of the windows with a squeegee.

You can also use Cripser technology to condense your distillate:

Drill a hole in the side of your refrigerator just large enough to take the nose of the retort.

Heat the retort on its stand with the retort's nose in the hole in the side of your fridge.

The hot distillate will condense in the cold appliance and the liquid will collect in the vegetable crisper.

Or maybe the meat drawer.

Look, this is cutting edge technology and sometimes there are unexpected surprises.








Ebay says they need to get their hands on my bank account if I want to keep selling there.
This sounds like the best idea since putting ortho tricresyl phosphate in Ginger Jake.
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Yttrium2
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[*] posted on 23-4-2020 at 11:36


I think i'll be going with a retort.


Perhaps there is some way to connect tubing to the retorts spout -- the only flexible tubing that I Know of that would do this is vinyl, which is attacked by my solvents.


pvc maybe


I like to use polypropylene



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[*] posted on 23-4-2020 at 11:41


thinking I could set the retort's spout into a long cylindrical like vase and submerge that in salt/ice or maybe dry ice / acetone
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Sulaiman
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[*] posted on 23-4-2020 at 13:55


Using a retort, if you cool the spout with water then the water will probably drip into your product.

Why not consider a cheap ground glass joint 'distillation kit' from China via eBay etc. ?




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Yttrium2
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biggrin.gif posted on 23-4-2020 at 14:02


Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman  
Using a retort, if you cool the spout with water then the water will probably drip into your product.

Why not consider a cheap ground glass joint 'distillation kit' from China via eBay etc. ?


those require running water, + I like the look of the retort/ Id like to avoid purchasing more stands. Simple is oftentimes better



300px-Distillation_by_Retort.png - 28kB

[Edited on 4/23/2020 by Yttrium2]
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[*] posted on 23-4-2020 at 15:52


You can put a cheap aquarium pump in a bucket of water to cool a condenser. If you need the condenser to be colder, add ice cubes (or plastic bags of them) to the bucket.
Distilling acetone in a retort does not seem like a good idea. Perhaps this is why alchemists are a rare breed today.:D
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[*] posted on 23-4-2020 at 18:01


A retort is essentially an air condenser. Useful when you want simplified apperatus and you don't need large rates of heat transfer to achieve condensation. Also good when there is a reason to avoid water cooling.
There is a member here who routinely uses a retort for distillation of sulfuric acid. Search "boiliing the bat" for details.

I would try to avoid active cooling on the retort itself. And I would try to avoid a metal ring stand unless I could insulate it somehow. (A few strips of glass fabric to prevent the retort directly touching the metal would be good.) I am thinking the logistics of say 300°C distillations here and the fact that you want to avoid any thermal stresses as much as possible.


I agree that they look both classic and cool and that might be reason enough to purchase one. It is on my glass fetish list. But realistically, I don't need one for anything that I am doing.
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Yttrium2
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[*] posted on 23-6-2020 at 10:47


Is there any other way to support my retort?
without using fiberglass strips?
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[*] posted on 23-6-2020 at 13:26


Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
Is there any other way to support my retort?
without using fiberglass strips?


This is coming from someone who is using ethanol so please check. It seems that I read a few decades ago that a wire mesh was okay?
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[*] posted on 23-6-2020 at 18:45


Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
Is there any other way to support my retort?
without using fiberglass strips?

You could use a sand bath for heating and supporting the retort.

+1 on not cooling the arm of the retort,
thermal stress and drips going into your product receiver.

+1 on the bucket of water with aquarium pump,
choose wisely between a.c. line voltage, 12 Vdc, or 5 V USB adapter or power bank.
Also, consider a submersible pump, or a more generally useful external (not submerged) pump.
Finally, consider a cpu cooler type of combination of pump plus radiator with fan(s).




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Chemorg42
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[*] posted on 23-6-2020 at 22:24


Quote: Originally posted by SWIM  
Or if you wait until there's cold weather you can just boil the solvents in an open pan in your room and collect the distillate off the inside of the windows with a squeegee.

You can also use Cripser technology to condense your distillate:

Drill a hole in the side of your refrigerator just large enough to take the nose of the retort.

Heat the retort on its stand with the retort's nose in the hole in the side of your fridge.

The hot distillate will condense in the cold appliance and the liquid will collect in the vegetable crisper.

Or maybe the meat drawer.

Look, this is cutting edge technology and sometimes there are unexpected surprises.





WHAT!
Are these serious suggestions?
Even if they are not, I feel like I need to point out for anyone looking for advice on this thread, do not, repeat, do not do either of these things. The first is most probably dangerous (not to mention inefficient), while the second violates one of the cardinal rules of hobby chemistry, keep away from food!
Apologies if this is supposed to be some joke, but I felt I had to respond.




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I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. (Richard Feynman)
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[*] posted on 23-6-2020 at 22:46


@ Chemorg42
Yeah it was a joke. You will get to know SWIM if you stick around. You should have got the CRISPR reference.
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[*] posted on 23-6-2020 at 23:21


@sum1 Yes, I thought it was probably a joke, but the instructions were just specific enough, and the ideas just out there and crazy enough, that I thought someone in the world might have meant it seriously.
As a joke, it is really quite good.




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I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. (Richard Feynman)
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[*] posted on 24-6-2020 at 08:32


Yeah, sorry about that.

It does sound way too much like actual instructions you'd find somewhere.

It was a foolish way to try to suggest that retorts tend to leak at least some fumes in most set-ups , so don't use one to distill your pyridine.









Ebay says they need to get their hands on my bank account if I want to keep selling there.
This sounds like the best idea since putting ortho tricresyl phosphate in Ginger Jake.
I'm walking while I can still walk straight.




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[*] posted on 24-6-2020 at 09:24


Quote: Originally posted by SWIM  
Yeah, sorry about that.

It does sound way too much like actual instructions you'd find somewhere.

It was a foolish way to try to suggest that retorts tend to leak at least some fumes in most set-ups , so don't use one to distill your pyridine.






No, it was very funny, well done!
I could just imagine some idiot meth cook seeing that and saying using my fridge, to cook? Ya, sounds like a good idea!




Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood a single word. (attributed to Niels Bohr)
I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. (Richard Feynman)
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Yttrium2
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[*] posted on 24-6-2020 at 11:30


All jokes aside, I'll probably go with what is in the depiction I posted
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[*] posted on 24-6-2020 at 18:36


Hope you're not going to distill solvents with it...
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[*] posted on 24-6-2020 at 18:52


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
Hope you're not going to distill solvents with it...



Well, not the exact depiction. I'm going to use a electric water boiler as my heat source ( I think) -- which I guess is still a bit of a fire hazard.

I'm not really sure how well my vapors will condense, I think so long as I don't heat it up too fast, it will work nicely.

Even if I were to distill flammable solvents in a retort like the one in the depiction, I am thinking that it wouldn't pose any serious problems if I did it outside.
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[*] posted on 24-6-2020 at 23:04


Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
Hope you're not going to distill solvents with it...



Well, not the exact depiction. I'm going to use a electric water boiler as my heat source ( I think) -- which I guess is still a bit of a fire hazard.

I'm not really sure how well my vapors will condense, I think so long as I don't heat it up too fast, it will work nicely.

Even if I were to distill flammable solvents in a retort like the one in the depiction, I am thinking that it wouldn't pose any serious problems if I did it outside.

If you intend to use a water bath to heat the contents of the retort
then the boiling point of the contents must of course be lower than the boiling point of water.
So the temperature will be not much above ambient temperature,
which, combined with the small effective cooling area, will only allow a VERY slow condensation rate.
So slow that you may give up chemistry in despair.

As a rough guide:
if I distill water using a Leibig condenser such as supplied in a cheap Chinese distillation kit,
I can condense about 6 ml per minute :(
Using a retort you should plan on much slower rates.

A retort is more suitable for higher boiling point liquids than it is for low b.p. liquids.




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Yttrium2
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[*] posted on 25-6-2020 at 08:55


Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman  
Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
Hope you're not going to distill solvents with it...



Well, not the exact depiction. I'm going to use a electric water boiler as my heat source ( I think) -- which I guess is still a bit of a fire hazard.

I'm not really sure how well my vapors will condense, I think so long as I don't heat it up too fast, it will work nicely.

Even if I were to distill flammable solvents in a retort like the one in the depiction, I am thinking that it wouldn't pose any serious problems if I did it outside.

If you intend to use a water bath to heat the contents of the retort
then the boiling point of the contents must of course be lower than the boiling point of water.
So the temperature will be not much above ambient temperature,
which, combined with the small effective cooling area, will only allow a VERY slow condensation rate.
So slow that you may give up chemistry in despair.

As a rough guide:
if I distill water using a Leibig condenser such as supplied in a cheap Chinese distillation kit,
I can condense about 6 ml per minute :(
Using a retort you should plan on much slower rates.

A retort is more suitable for higher boiling point liquids than it is for low b.p. liquids.


Even in the depiction there isn't adequate cooling surface area? That is what I plan on doing, not just using the spout of the retort to condense vapor.


Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to modify the neck of the retort so that it connects to an air cooled condenser/ longer length of tubing?



Lastly, can someone explain, (as I've heard before) - Why higher b.p. compounds condense easier at room temp than the lower b.p. compounds? -- I think I get it, but a clear explanation might do wonders.




Thanx all
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[*] posted on 25-6-2020 at 18:21


i got lazy trying to dig up condenser,bent arm joints,kleck clips,igloo cooler with built in pump,hoses and flasks so i used my retort the last 4 times. all you need is a pc. of wood with a hole in it where you can slide the cooling arm into.i always use a clamp to hold up the whole retort and i grab it from the cooling arm right at the base.now thinking it can be done with a pc of wood too really like i stated before.also the last runs i did were on windy days so i covered the flask in aluminum foil like a bell.it trapped all the heat okay but had better luck even wrapping the cooling arm.i just stuck the retort arm into a brown jar in an ice bath and hardly any fumes escaped.my retort is not as long as yours and the arm is a bit thicker probably.its a 500 ml.this summer i will dig out my condenser set up maybe.naw i think i'm done distilling.
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[*] posted on 25-6-2020 at 20:30


Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman  
So slow that you may give up chemistry in despair.

When I was getting started, I bought a retort. Then I used it.
Then I bought a real distillation set.
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