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Author: Subject: Most toxic compound OTC?
UC235
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[*] posted on 20-6-2020 at 13:37


And yet, lead chromate is 3 orders of magnitude less soluble than Barium Sulfate which is also hypothetically toxic but is used as medical contrast without ill effects. I'm sure prolonged exposure or consumption would lead to non-trivial absorption of lead and chromate, but it wouldn't be anywhere near the top of my list.
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[*] posted on 20-6-2020 at 16:34


The idea that you can refine an OTC to get the poison makes it awfully easy.

Can you buy pitchblende?

Then buy a whole lot and make like Marie Curie (But try not to poison yourself)

I think this question might be meant more as what's the most toxic OTC material, not what is the most toxic ingredient in an OTC.

Next time I'm downtown I'll ask around.
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This sounds like the best idea since putting ortho tricresyl phosphate in Ginger Jake.
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[*] posted on 20-6-2020 at 21:39


Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  
nicotine (much more potent than cyanide)


I don't think that's actually true, you know. Apparently, it has quite recently been shown that Nicotine is a lot less toxic than it was believed for a long time to be.

Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  
...fentanyl would be obvious candidate, notorious for having been mixed with xanax...


Although it has been found occasionally in counterfeit benzo pills, Fentanyl is far more commonly seen as a cut in Heroin, or even as a total substitute.
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mackolol
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[*] posted on 21-6-2020 at 11:12


Recently it came to my mind that most OTC and very toxic yet mutagenic and carcinogenic are toxins from black mold. It can be harvested and done almost in all conditions and is very effective.
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[*] posted on 21-6-2020 at 16:46


@mack that's fair but I'm not so sure about isolating any one compound from molds.
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karlos³
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[*] posted on 21-6-2020 at 17:23


Well, I isolate some stuff from a partially molded substance, trying to avoid these components.
And I had it sent in for an elaborate testing, and the final hash oil was absolutely free from these contaminants.
Though we didn't know if the mold really was a certain aflatoxing producing one of course.
But we knew for certain that the produced extract was free from these compounds.

Guess it should be as easy as trying to extract these toxins, if the fungus is the right one.

But mycotoxins!
That brings me to an idea...
I don't know how often I though while picking mushrooms that I see a primo example of a "button mushroom"(you call them that in english?), with which I mean an Agaricus species, the plain ones from the super market of course.
And then I saw the bulbous base and that the velum, smell, etc... the latter is so typical...

But anyways!
What I want to say is, that they must be one of the most OTC poisons.
The death caps.
I read, that many victims of them said, even on their deathbed, that the fungal meal tasted great... how horrible!
Your eyes already deeply yellow from liver failure, and the only reminiscence of your deathly failure is a great taste!

Now with that in mind, I wonder how the hemlock mug of Sokrates tasted?
Was it likewise good, or horribly bitter, or what?
I guess he could've told, did no research on that...
And honestly, I don't care.
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[*] posted on 16-8-2020 at 09:19


Once I bought a lot of Jequerety beans (Abrus precatorius) and extracted the abrin from it. I gott pretty much of the abrin (and ricin, which I also extracted from (Ricinus communis).

I got a little of it in me, and fellt fever, bloody vomiting and blood in the feaces. But I survaided, and got healthy again.

The anlyze of the material was enougth to kill tousends of people. Abrin is 10-100 more times stronger than ricin.


But it was found by the police in my apartment, along with some radioactive stuff.

But I was freed from crime against some chemical weapons law. The abrin was classed as a biological weapen for some reason, and I was free from that point too.

Deadly dose for abrin is about 0,1 mg




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[*] posted on 16-8-2020 at 10:05


Mercuric acetate is pretty toxic.

Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  

Now with that in mind, I wonder how the hemlock mug of Sokrates tasted?
Was it likewise good, or horribly bitter, or what?
I guess he could've told, did no research on that...
And honestly, I don't care.


The poisonous chemical in hemlock is coniine. It's actually quite toxic. You could probably steam distill it out of poison hemlock. Coniine a bit less toxic than fentanyl, which is not OTC. It's a bit more toxic than ricin.

Strychnine is the most toxic chemical I'm seeing from a quick look. I believe you can purchase it as a varmint poison.
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[*] posted on 16-8-2020 at 10:07


Quote: Originally posted by Xanax  
Once I bought a lot of Jequerety beans (Abrus precatorius) and extracted the abrin from it. I gott pretty much of the abrin (and ricin, which I also extracted from (Ricinus communis).

I got a little of it in me, and fellt fever, bloody vomiting and blood in the feaces. But I survaided, and got healthy again.

The anlyze of the material was enougth to kill tousends of people. Abrin is 10-100 more times stronger than ricin.


But it was found by the police in my apartment, along with some radioactive stuff.

But I was freed from crime against some chemical weapons law. The abrin was classed as a biological weapen for some reason, and I was free from that point too.

Deadly dose for abrin is about 0,1 mg


Oh, I didn't see that... that's extremely toxic.
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[*] posted on 16-8-2020 at 11:10


I actually have done bioassays with the strychnine containing nuts, in stimulating doses.
It was actually quite nice and concentration and performance enhancing.
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[*] posted on 16-8-2020 at 11:35


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
I actually have done bioassays with the strychnine containing nuts, in stimulating doses.
It was actually quite nice and concentration and performance enhancing.


I find it fascinating about many poisons and toxins don't necessarily become such until a certain dosage threshold. Botulinum toxin is the most poisonous substance known, yet in sub-nanogram/kg doses, it is therapeutic. Go scuba diving deep enough with the wrong mix of air and you can get oxygen or nitrogen narcosis. My dive instructor told an amusing story of his experience with nitrogen narcosis where he decided to take out his regulator and try to give air to a submerged log. His dive partner had to intervene.
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[*] posted on 24-8-2020 at 08:04


Jequerety beans, used to be as common as dirt. Seeing a string of the red and black beans, at a garage sale or a thrift store, was an ordinary event. Cheap Native jewelry. I haven't seen any lately, but I haven't been looking.

Still, I'm imagining that the beans are less commonplace in modern times. Replaced by plastic beads. And perhaps more commonly recognized, as being poisonous.
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[*] posted on 24-8-2020 at 08:26


Not exactly OTC but definitely highly toxic - batrachotoxin

https://www.chemistryworld.com/podcasts/batrachotoxin/7073.a...
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[*] posted on 24-8-2020 at 09:13


Batrachotoxin? Yup! Kinda like Paralytic Shellfish Toxin. Rogue Dinoflagellates make the stuff. Shell fish chow-down on the Dinoflagellates, and accumulate the toxin.

Vertebrates exposed either to high loads of Dinoflagellates, or a Lucious meal of shellfish, succumb to the poison.

In my neck of the woods, you don't even think about eating fresh shellfish, in a month without an "R".

In fact, if you had the means to refine the toxin, right now, might be a Primo time to harvest shellfish.

Some years, the accumulation of toxin becomes so severe, that it takes years for local shellfish to purge themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paralytic_shellfish_poisoning

You may recall, that George Bush Senior, then a CIA man, was quizzed by Congress, about a dart-gun pistol, that utilized this toxin. His lawyers advice? If they ask you, you have to answer, but under NO circumstances, will you touch or hold that weapon. Such a photo-op, will poison your career!

[Edited on 24-8-2020 by zed]
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[*] posted on 24-8-2020 at 10:55


Sorry for OT, but:
Batrachotoxine?
That reminds me of another toxin found in frogs, not really OTC though, as while the species of poison dart frogs can be bought, they don't produce it anymore in captivity due to their diet.
I just mention it, because the molecule is quite interesting, it even contains a chlorine atom which is very unusual.
Epibatidine, that was the name of the stuff!
I think its real source isn't the frog itself but a certain mite which is part of his diet, which is the reason why they loose their toxicity in captive.
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[*] posted on 24-8-2020 at 15:42


karlos,
That is mentioned in the link I posted.
For batrachotoxin, the frogs as well as two types of birds eat the beetle.
The beetle isn't thought to produce the toxin itself either.
It is thought to be accumulated from something the beetles eat.

Only maitotoxin and botulinium toxin are more potent than batrachotoxin.
Maitotoxin is the one zed was referring to in shellfish.
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[*] posted on 26-8-2020 at 04:42


My Ricinus plants are doing well! There are a couple hundred more beans maturing on the two plants I have.

I will leave the isolation of the ricin for what it is, I'm just storing the beans in the fridge to plant next year. The plants won't survive the winter outside.

Normally Ricinus wouldn't form mature beans in the Dutch climate, but I planted them inside in December and put them outside in April.

RicinusBeans.png - 1011kB
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karlos³
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[*] posted on 26-8-2020 at 05:42


Very cool!
Somehow the ~200-300 seeds from last year got lost all, but somehow one little seedling turned up in a pot that was inside over the winter, and thats all this year.
Someone must have thrown them away, or lost them somewhere, or more likely, put them where they don't belong and they will not be found until the growing season is over.
I wanted them to start early too, and then directly in the open soil so they can get really huge.
Well, that tiny little seedling came two months ago, and is thanks to the tiny pot he sprung to life in, still not even 30cm high, so that is ricinus for me this growing season :D

When you plant already in december, how large do your ricinus trees get then?
The plants sown in spring can already easily, given good soil and enough room for the roots, reach 3m easily, or a lot more, and that all in just a single season, but you've seen this already of course.
I read they are able to reach 6m in just 3-4 months, when their growing condition are ideal :o
So, how about yours, with such an early start they must get close to that, no?

By the way, the plants from last year I had, they were planted in march or so, and they still formed beans, I left them to dry by themself with the first cold nights.
The beans are not as big as the seeds you can buy, but its just a little bit, not much of a difference.
They will start to flower anyway at the same time, no matter when they got planted, what is more important is that they have enough time to get ripe in autumn.
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[*] posted on 26-8-2020 at 06:03


My plants are in pots on my roof terrace , so the growth is limited by the size of the pot, I don't have a garden. The bigger plant is in a 40 liter pot, and got around 1,5 meter in height. The second one is in a 10 liter pot and got to about a meter.

Always fascinating to see plants become about as big as their root system. I have seen only one exception now, my Passiflora caerulea; it is in a half liter pot but has grown about 7 meters of shoots. It is growing inside and is even growing two pieces of fruit now. I took a cutting which is now growing in a 50 ml pot... I'm curious how large it will grow. Passiflora seems quite resistant to drying out.
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[*] posted on 26-8-2020 at 22:30


Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  

Always fascinating to see plants become about as big as their root system. I have seen only one exception now, my Passiflora caerulea; it is in a half liter pot but has grown about 7 meters of shoots. It is growing inside and is even growing two pieces of fruit now. I took a cutting which is now growing in a 50 ml pot... I'm curious how large it will grow. Passiflora seems quite resistant to drying out.

Gratulations to the fruits, indoor even :o
Must be southern windows I assume?

But yes, I've seen the same with another climbing plant, but it was long ago now.
It was an Argyreia nervosa, I've grown from the well known seeds, and it was her second year.
The first year, they remain a short plant, albeit with large leaves.
And in her second summer, I've put he, I kr in the garden, in the ~2-3l pot she was in.
Now, knowing that plant, I should have expected that, but I thought with that little pot it wouldn't be that bad.
In the second year, the little shrub from the first year will transform into a climbing plant and I knew this.
But nobody would have expected the little shrub of like 40, maybe 50cm, to start stretching that much over the course of just a few weeks(I think).
We measured it, the main strunk got 4m long and then started to wrap around the little cherry tree.
And she also sprouted several secondary ranks up to 0,5m, in my memories it was almost explosion like how much got out of this little pot!
She was wrapped so tight around the cherry tree and got so huge, it was her death sentence sadly.
Couldn't get her down from there, and even if, there was nowhere enough place for that furry plantmonster :o
I think the time-release fertiliser was at fault or something, or maybe thats just normal for this species, I don't know, never had one of them again sadly.
It was a cool plant, with soft and furry leaves, looking really good, but I haven't expected her to turn into audrey II over the course of a hot and humid summer :D

So, ricinus trees aren't the only plants who surprise with their growth, but definitely among the top 3.
But enough OT for now.


Back to the topic: wolfsbane!
Beautiful native plant, and one of the most toxic ones.
It is suspected the germanic ancestors have used them to make poison arrows with for hunting.
But couldn't be confirmed yet.
Their concentration of aconitine is definitely enough to sort them among the most toxic compounds which are OTC.
As far as I know, aconitine is not hard to extract, and with its potency, crude extractions are effective enough already(to hunt of course!).
Just had a look at a patent from the 20's, didn't remembered how strong that stuff was already as plant matter :o
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Tsjerk
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[*] posted on 27-8-2020 at 00:02


I had an Aconitum doing great behind the same window on the south as the Passiflora, but I probably over watered it as it started to rot.

Apparently aconitine is easily extracted with an aqueous solution of tartaric acid.

Very OTC, as I bought the plant at the local garden centre.

Edit: lovely looking molecule as well!

[Edited on 27-8-2020 by Tsjerk]
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[*] posted on 15-9-2020 at 13:45


Even more OTC, colect a thousands of apple seeds, crush them and extract your cyanide xd im
amased noone mention this :D I also see a lot of drugs mentioned, probably a DOX series overdose or NBOMES are very bad way to die, imagine overdosing on one of these, or the fentalogues in the 10000+ potency of morphine, a few ug can be enough.




[Edited on 15-9-2020 by dextro88]
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[*] posted on 17-9-2020 at 12:17


in terms of what has the lowest ld50 definitely americium from smoke detectors, however each one will only have a few hundred ng so u wouldnt be able to do much
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[*] posted on 17-9-2020 at 17:52


Quote: Originally posted by garphield  
in terms of what has the lowest ld50 definitely americium from smoke detectors, however each one will only have a few hundred ng so u wouldnt be able to do much


Oh yeah, reminds me of the "nuclear boy scout", and the horrible looking face of him in this picture: https://stillunfold.com/public/upload/post_thumb/Story_of_Ra...
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[*] posted on 17-9-2020 at 19:14


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  

Oh yeah, reminds me of the "nuclear boy scout", and the horrible looking face of him in this picture


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