Draeger
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Worries about Cl in small scale electrolysis
So, I wanted to do attempts at some basic electrolysis to try and see how it works. But I am worried about chlorine production.
I know the lethal dose, but I don't know when I should start worrying. I would have to do it in a room I am in most of the day and there are neighbors
directly below the room. I also can't really do more than open a window and hope the wind blows into the room for ventilation. I wouldn't work with
more than 10 grams of chloride.
Is chlorine safe on that scale?
[Edited on 29-5-2020 by Draeger]
Collected elements:
Al, Cu, Ga, C (coal), S, Zn, Na
Collected compounds:
Inorganic:
NaOH; NaHCO3; MnCl2; MnCO3; CuSO4; FeSO4; aq. 30-33% HCl; aq. NaClO; aq. 9,5% ammonia; aq. 94-96% H2SO4; aq. 3% H2O2
Organic:
citric acid, sodium acetate, sodium citrate, petroleum, mineral oil
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draculic acid69
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No this is completely insufficient.do not attempt.bare minimum is an extraction fan with ducting leading outside.bare minimum. I once mixed 15ml gaa
with 15g calcium hypochlorite in a bathroom with the ceiling fan going and a window open which resulted in me experiencing the fun (not fun) of
chlorine poisoning. it doesn't take much chlorine to make you sick and experience a really bad headache and more. I think there was the beginnings of
blindness as well as my vision was affected as well.
Do not try. A little bit of chlorine is a lot. Its a war gas and having a window open doesn't cut it.
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CouchHatter
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It can be neutralized with a NaOH trap, but I'm not familiar with electrolysis. Unless you're working with a closed system, I agree that the lack of
dedicated ventilation would be unacceptable. It's bad enough getting a whiff of fuming HCl.
Plus, exposing your neighbors to chlorine would give them a poor impression of yourself and of hobby chemistry. There are ways to deal with it without
simply letting it out a window!
[Edited on 29-5-2020 by CouchHatter]
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B(a)P
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What sort of scale are you talking - volume and concentration of electrolyte, voltage, current ect?
Seal the unit and include an exhaust port. Then direct this to an NaOH solution. Tests its effectiveness with litmus paper on a trial run while you
closely monitor it for a period of time. Modify the design as required until you cannot detect chlorine by scaling the cell down or increasing the
effectiveness of the trap.
Edit: the odour threshold is 3 orders of magnitude less than the recommended maximum long term exposure criterion. If you can detect it by smell,
modify your design until you cannot, just remember you will desensitise to the odour after initially smelling it so don't rely on that as your only
test for trap efficiency.
[Edited on 29-5-2020 by B(a)P]
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mackolol
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I wonder how do you want to make chlorine by electrolisys. Do you mean HCl electrolysis? In my case during HCl electrolysis there weren't much
chlorine produced, I think because I had poor quality electrodes that reacted with chlorine.
But if you wan't to work with chlorine you must be outside. I don't know how hard is to get a place outside to work, but whenever I perform
chlorination, I do it outside and I'm not afraid at all, it can be easily controlled. Once I accidentally inhaled lungful of chlorine and my hands
started to get numb and my lungs hurted for few days, but nothing very serious. I don't go close to chlorine source without gasmask from that time
though.
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Herr Haber
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Though I have produced chlorine in a room with an open window I also had a gas mask and wasnt staying in.
The reaction was taking place on the edge of the window and excess chlorine was vented out.
If you want to get to know chlorine better to check how at ease you feel with your electrolytic cell get a drinking glass, trow in one of those bleach
tablets your mother probably has at home, add some water and a bit of HCl.
See what happens to metals that you leave nearby: cover the cup with Al foil, strip an electric cable and see what chlorine does to copper.
Small but instructive experiments
The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
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B(a)P
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@Draeger can you provide any detail on your proposed reaction. I think some assumptions may have been made in some of the responses to your request.
Perhaps sharing your proposed reaction pathway would help in answering your questions? Side note - Does your user name have anything to do with the
consumer detection products under the same name?
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MadHatter
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Chlorine
In my production of (per)chlorates by electrolysis
some chlorine was always generated. I did it in my
bedroom in front of a cheap window fan. The
chlorine eventually ruins the fan but for the most
part I didn't worry about poisoning. In small
amounts it's an irritant and my whole apartment
smelled like bleach but no ill effects to this day.
From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
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Draeger
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Registered: 31-1-2020
Location: North-Rhine Westfalia, Germany
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Mood: Slowly getting ready for new projects
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Oh god, I really did not specify this enough. I wasn't planning to make chlorine itself, but it would probably be a side product. Or maybe not, maybe
it would react with whatever wire would produce it immediately. I basically just want to stick some metal wire into an aqueous solution of MnCl2 and
see if it produces Mn, but since it's a chloride, I suspect it would make chlorine gas. I'd do electrolysis at various very low, battery scale
electricity levels, depending on the battery I find laying around, so max 5V and very little ampere.
@B(a)P I have no idea what product that is, so nope. My username is basically an amalgamation of various words from other languages, just think it
sounds sort of good.
[Edited on 29-5-2020 by Draeger]
Collected elements:
Al, Cu, Ga, C (coal), S, Zn, Na
Collected compounds:
Inorganic:
NaOH; NaHCO3; MnCl2; MnCO3; CuSO4; FeSO4; aq. 30-33% HCl; aq. NaClO; aq. 9,5% ammonia; aq. 94-96% H2SO4; aq. 3% H2O2
Organic:
citric acid, sodium acetate, sodium citrate, petroleum, mineral oil
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mackolol
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Registered: 26-10-2017
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Quote: Originally posted by Draeger  | Oh god, I really did not specify this enough. I wasn't planning to make chlorine itself, but it would probably be a side product. Or maybe not, maybe
it would react with whatever wire would produce it immediately. I basically just want to stick some metal wire into an aqueous solution of MnCl2 and
see if it produces Mn, but since it's a chloride, I suspect it would make chlorine gas. I'd do electrolysis at various very low, battery scale
electricity levels, depending on the battery I find laying around, so max 5V and very little ampere.
@B(a)P I have no idea what product that is, so nope. My username is basically an amalgamation of various words from other languages, just think it
sounds sort of good.
[Edited on 29-5-2020 by Draeger] |
You should't worry at all. If I wanted to produce chlorine by electrolysis and failed, you should fail at it too. And after all even big quantity of
chlorine made on ourpose is harmless outside if you don't sniff it close. And even then you can blow it out easily.
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