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Ammonium persulphate + sulphuric acid as a sub for piranha solution
Guys,
since 30% hydrogen peroxide is hard to come by in Europe, I'm looking for alternatives, especially to clean glassware (I'll probably attempt to
concentrate 10% H₂O₂ into a 30% solution using vacuum distillation at 50°C or less. My simulations show that the process is almost quantitative
up to 50%+ concentration, i.e. that only water distils). I've recently ordered a 1 kg box of ammonium persulfate and just read it can act as a pretty
good tar scavenger when mixed with (hot?) concentrated sulphuric acid.
Anyone having an experience with this mixture, apparently also called Nochromix?
Thanks!
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DavidJR
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12% hydrogen peroxide still works.
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Keras
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But I suppose to a much lesser extent. Or much more slowly?
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DavidJR
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I don't really know, I've never had 30% hydrogen peroxide to make piranha with. But what I do know is that a mixture of arbitrary quantities of 12%
hydrogen peroxide and 91% sulfuric acid drain cleaner still make a very effective cleaner.
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Keras
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Do you use it cold or hot?
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Refinery
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It appears that your source states it is efficient glass cleaner, so it is. In cleaning, if it does the job is only what matters.
In my POV the persulfate-carbonate-substances are very cheap and OTC, but H2O2 is only available in diluted form, and it commands a huge price. 30
bucks for 1 liter of 3% H2O2 is absolutely prohibitive, when 1kg of persulfate is sold for 4 bucks. I can get H2O2 up to 50% with one phone call
through a company, but I don't really need a 6 gallon canister of it.
EDIT Now that you said it, I need to get some persulfate as well. I have some dirty glassware and sintered funnels that's been waiting for cleaning
for a while.
[Edited on 23-6-2020 by Refinery]
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DavidJR
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I don't heat it, but it gets pretty hot just mixing it up and I use it immediately.
[Edited on 24-6-2020 by DavidJR]
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Keras
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Ok, thanks!
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Refinery
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I suppose sodium can be substituted with ammonium freely?
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karlos³
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You can use oxone instead, and sulfuric acid, this gives you piranha solution too.
Or "nibblewater", as the translation of a nice German term for it(Knabberwasser) would say(I'm trying to establish that word in english, it sounds
really cute)  .
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symboom
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I second the reaction of sulfuric acid and oxone I tried it on a strawberry although it seemed to react slower but the strawberry was gone in minutes
[Edited on 26-6-2020 by symboom]
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Refinery
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If potassium peroxymonosulfate is mixed with H2SO4, what is the reaction equation? It is the salt that forms from from H2SO5 or Caro's acid, should it
be rather inert in this case?
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dawt
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Since conc. H2SO4 won't be easily available in the EU starting February '21 - is there anything it can be substituted with?
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RustyShackleford
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Oxone works sure but its really bad in comparison to even 12%.
this pic is sulfuric only, 12% peroxide + sulfuric (1:4 v:v), oxone and sulfuric (1:4 v:v). The vials were on a 45C surface for 6 hours.
Peroxide completely and cleanly digested the spaghetti, sulfuric and oxone only damaged
[Edited on 26-12-2020 by RustyShackleford]
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Bedlasky
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Quote: Originally posted by dawt  | | Since conc. H2SO4 won't be easily available in the EU starting February '21 - is there anything it can be substituted with? |
Maybe 85% H3PO4 + H2O2? Phosphorus forms similar peroxoacids like sulfur - H3PO5 and H4P2O8.
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