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Author: Subject: Forbidden Knowledge!
Yttrium2
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[*] posted on 24-6-2020 at 16:01


I think there are two options


meth, through pseudoephedrine or various other routes (benzyl cyanide)

mda/mdma

and maybe PMA.

GHB, too- if you know what you are doing

I have spent/ waisted many years looking at synths and what is out there to find only very little that one can some up with without a good knowledge of chemistry, and access to precursors that are now restricted.

It seemed that a few years ago it was much easier to find information on APAP.



There was Totse and the wetdreams


Don't forget total synthesis by strike


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BromicAcid
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[*] posted on 24-6-2020 at 16:04


@Housane - From memory, ammonium nitrate/calcium hypochlorite was one. I had a whole list, I remember there were several more but what they were escapes me.




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karlos³
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[*] posted on 24-6-2020 at 17:22


Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  

I have spent/ waisted many years looking at synths and what is out there to find only very little that one can some up with without a good knowledge of chemistry, and access to precursors that are now restricted.

Come on, we know you are just lazy.
This counts for both knowledge and access to chemicals.
It just requires looking hard enough... and actually trying to comprehend what can be found ;)

Its actually easy.
People are just stupid and insecure nowadays, also scared of chemicals.
They weren't in the 90s and earlier, and just look how many of them were active back then.
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Yttrium2
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wink.gif posted on 24-6-2020 at 18:34


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  

I have spent/ waisted many years looking at synths and what is out there to find only very little that one can some up with without a good knowledge of chemistry, and access to precursors that are now restricted.

Come on, we know you are just lazy.
This counts for both knowledge and access to chemicals.
It just requires looking hard enough... and actually trying to comprehend what can be found ;)

Its actually easy.
People are just stupid and insecure nowadays, also scared of chemicals.
They weren't in the 90s and earlier, and just look how many of them were active back then.



You are fucking with me,
what do you mean "look at how many of them were active back then"


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Corrosive Joeseph
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[*] posted on 24-6-2020 at 18:50


No, he is not fucking with you.... You actually wasted all those years.


/CJ




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Yttrium2
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[*] posted on 24-6-2020 at 18:53


Quote: Originally posted by Corrosive Joeseph  
No, he is not fucking with you.... You actually wasted all those years.


/CJ



yeah he is, and I am stating that I did waste all those years


There is nothing there for the amateur clandestine chemist anymore other than what I had listed.

I assume your not wanting to post whatever it is that is supposedly there because then everyone will want to jump in on the bandwagon. I take it further discourse of this mater is futile because of that.

[Edited on 6/25/2020 by Yttrium2]

[Edited on 6/25/2020 by Yttrium2]
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Sulaiman
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[*] posted on 24-6-2020 at 20:57
I have conflicting views on 'forbidden chemistry'


I would not like to see simple recipies available for stuff that clearly has only malicious purposes
- such as neurotoxin weapons etc.

OTOH I think that tried and true (illegal) drug preparation 'recipies' should be widely available
- to reduce the risk to consumers.
(I believe that the non-medicinal use of psychoactive substances predates human history, and will probably continue to the end of history)

I have browsed the 'cooks' websites quite often as there is a lot of generally useful information there,
and I was extremely impressed with various methods used to mitigate the unavailability of some precursors,
such in depth knowledge is awe inspiring.

I also wish that there is a lot more accurate information on traditional/herbal medicines,
compiled for easy reference.
(anyone have references ?)




CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
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Chemorg42
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[*] posted on 24-6-2020 at 22:09


Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman  
I would not like to see simple recipes available for stuff that clearly has only malicious purposes
- such as neurotoxin weapons etc.

OTOH I think that tried and true (illegal) drug preparation 'recipes' should be widely available
- to reduce the risk to consumers.
(I believe that the non-medicinal use of psychoactive substances predates human history, and will probably continue to the end of history)

I have browsed the 'cooks' websites quite often as there is a lot of generally useful information there,
and I was extremely impressed with various methods used to mitigate the unavailability of some precursors,
such in depth knowledge is awe inspiring.

I also wish that there is a lot more accurate information on traditional/herbal medicines,
compiled for easy reference.
(anyone have references ?)

I also am conflicted. On one level, I see your point about "Recipes" which include no chemistry discussion and have no use other than malicious uses. However, on a deeper level, I am not willing to sacrifice my commitment to freedom of speech and expression. Restricting such recipes, no matter how distasteful they may be, sets a very dangerous precedent in my view.
BTW, if this line of discussion continues, maybe this thread should be split off into legal and societal issues.




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I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. (Richard Feynman)
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karlos³
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[*] posted on 25-6-2020 at 06:43


Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman  

I have browsed the 'cooks' websites quite often as there is a lot of generally useful information there,
and I was extremely impressed with various methods used to mitigate the unavailability of some precursors,
such in depth knowledge is awe inspiring.

I see that as a very nice compliment :)

Personally, I am doing what I can to spread the knowledge and to make it more easily available.
I was thanked by many over time for that, and whenever I hear that someone was successful because of that, I am confirmed on my reasons to do so, it makes me happy to have such a positive impact.
I just wish more would do this as well.
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karlos³
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[*] posted on 25-6-2020 at 08:49


Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  

There is nothing there for the amateur clandestine chemist anymore other than what I had listed.

I assume your not wanting to post whatever it is that is supposedly there because then everyone will want to jump in on the bandwagon. I take it further discourse of this mater is futile because of that.

There is so much out there and we already told in this thread where it is, just look at my first post in here.
Visit those sites, you will be blown away by the sheer number of what is possible for the amateur chemists.

And you know what, we would be so happy if everyone wants to jump on in the bandwagon too!
We would be very glad about such a development, to get more people into our niche of amateur chemistry, we actually already try to get more people to do this.

Now go and read those sites and you will be astonished about the informations.
You have to register on both of these forums I mentioned, as they don't have all that out in the open for the google crawler to see.
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Yttrium2
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[*] posted on 25-6-2020 at 10:10


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  

There is nothing there for the amateur clandestine chemist anymore other than what I had listed.

I assume your not wanting to post whatever it is that is supposedly there because then everyone will want to jump in on the bandwagon. I take it further discourse of this mater is futile because of that.

There is so much out there and we already told in this thread where it is, just look at my first post in here.
Visit those sites, you will be blown away by the sheer number of what is possible for the amateur chemists.

And you know what, we would be so happy if everyone wants to jump on in the bandwagon too!
We would be very glad about such a development, to get more people into our niche of amateur chemistry, we actually already try to get more people to do this.

Now go and read those sites and you will be astonished about the informations.
You have to register on both of these forums I mentioned, as they don't have all that out in the open for the google crawler to see.






List something
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karlos³
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[*] posted on 25-6-2020 at 11:59


As I said, you are inherently lazy.
Go visit the respective pages and see for yourself.

But I give you something: one of us made, completely OTC, a good portion of the essential amphetamines... TMA-2, DMMDA, MDMA/MDA, MMDA.
And this was only with things you can buy at a hardware store.

But something else, as for example I have made aminorex from styrene using only things that are available OTC.

Or cathinones, a huge number of their analogues can be made OTC, with some of them active in a range of single-digit milligrams.

Or DMT, which is 100% OTC(that is, if fuel cells are a thing where you live).

Ephedrine via yeast, likewise completely OTC(and I should know best, now that Org isn't around anymore).

And so on, I don't know why I even listed so many things but I guess I just wanted to prove you wrong...
But search for yourself on these pages, there are so many things more that can be found there.
Also look in the russian board, likewise the same.

Actually, if you are a clever amateur chemists, almost anything can be made OTC, it will just become very, VERY lengthy in some cases.
Dedicated amateurs still can, and some will, do it.
And they are a clever breed for sure, THEY can tackle down things in a way you wouldn't have thought of, that in turn make the respective thing again OTC.
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[*] posted on 25-6-2020 at 12:14


Please listen to @ karlos^3 as he does know what he speaks of.
It is actually even better as many ways to simple amphetamines and methamphetamines are discussed.
Unless someone wants to adopt you, you will have to do some research and study on your own.

[Edited on 6/25/2020 by morganbw]
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Yttrium2
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[*] posted on 25-6-2020 at 12:20


Interesting

[Edited on 6/25/2020 by Yttrium2]
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Yttrium2
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[*] posted on 25-6-2020 at 12:27


Quote: Originally posted by morganbw  

Unless someone wants to adopt you, you will have to do some research and study on your own.

[Edited on 6/25/2020 by morganbw]



That is a whole nother' topic of its own. It probably deserves its own thread. The philosophical implifications of it are huge.

I think we best learn as a community when we work together, sharing information, each of us studying, whether adopted or un adopted orphans I do not know. Look at how far we have come as a civilization? It boggles me how knowledge is spread, is it passed down to the elect? Who get the right vitamins and minerals, and love to not be lazy
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[*] posted on 25-6-2020 at 12:29


You may also be relieved that the simple glassware you have could suffice with some of the synths outlined. Not all, reading and digesting is very important.
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[*] posted on 25-6-2020 at 12:45


Thanks for the support morganbw :)

Yeah well, we came far as a civilization, but how many of those contributed, and how many on the contrary had simply been dragged onwards with the rest? The large majority belongs to the second category....

So, this may does work for civilizations, but not here, sorrry to disappoint you.
In chemistry everyone has to work and study for himself a lot and put even more effort into this.
The exchange with others is just a tiny little part of it, but for this one needs lots of knowledge that was learned for himself.
But to find, study and comprehend, and then be at some point able to discuss that, those things need to be done on your own solely.

In chemistry getting dragged on with the others to some point where one advances simply by sticking around, no this will just not work.
I have to say, that sounds almost like acquiring knowledge through osmosis :D

[Edited on 25-6-2020 by karlos³]
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[*] posted on 25-6-2020 at 13:00


And thus the mention of adoption. The info is there for all, but somehow we also need to digest this. This takes work(a lot of work for some of us, a little work for some others).


[Edited on 6/25/2020 by morganbw]

[Edited on 6/25/2020 by morganbw]
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karlos³
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[*] posted on 25-6-2020 at 14:15


Yes, digestion of the found informations is the essential part of it.
Just sharing something that is thought to be of value will just result in 90% garbage being shared, as without achieving an understanding at first one can not know if anything really has the assumed value.

An example for this: http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=155637...
Sharing, without having assessed its value first.
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[*] posted on 26-6-2020 at 02:59


Forbidden knowledge for me is less about drug synth as (almost) the whole thread seems to be about.

Occasionally I find it interesting to see how chemical deterrents are made. Such as dibenzoxapine (CR/firegas) can be made from phenol derivatives and a microwave. Non lethal disabling lacrymator thats much more potent and less toxic than tear gas. But it's all an "offensive weapon" to the government here.
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[*] posted on 27-6-2020 at 02:21


knowledge can only be "forbidden" to those that refuse to seek.

Think I need to rig up some 50lb test line and a rapala minnow so I can go trolling too.




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[*] posted on 28-6-2020 at 09:21


actualy i think there is too much disinformation in almost everywhere, and if one is the type of amateur chemist that dont know what exactly does it will result in garbage if even but thats another case,

one have to love the knowledge and what he does to improve himself, i think the proper path if anyone wanna know abaut these procedrures or the so called "forbiden kowledge" they are actualy a basic chemistry, is to get a degree set up a licensed laboratory and do his experiements in silence while improving and understading what he does,
Im actualy thinking of getting a degree and thinking between inorganic or analitic chemistry degree as it seems candidates are almost extinct in my country, and only one forensic laboratory in the whole country i think licensing a private one and starting to profiting from all these so called gangsters and saving them some time woud be a good idea, who knows.

And last words, the forbiden knowledge is the knowledge the criminals look out and the whole drug scene cant exists if there is no people who know what does and create some work down the waterfall for the drug agencies, and everyone thiking they can get of theyrs money is in the path to prison or even worse,if someone with skills wanna get high with frends on special ocasions with real pure drugs thats another topic, but 99% are using the knowledge the wrong way.
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[*] posted on 28-6-2020 at 09:56


@dextro88

I pretty much disagree with you. While making money is one aspect of it, I feel that there are many amatuar chemist who make something illegal for the challenge and because it is chemistry. Perhaps they might enjoy or potentially share with someone close.

Of course the criminal element has to have some knowledge but I think that the better chemist are among those I just described.

There is a lot of people who have no intent to profit but still enjoy their hobby even if they produce something not legal.
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[*] posted on 28-6-2020 at 10:21


yeah you probably dont understand me, there is so small % of the skilled chemists who woud synthes drugs and dont profit from them and usage of these drugs can fastly change theyr thinking, there is so thin line between research and be a criminal.

[Edited on 28-6-2020 by dextro88]
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[*] posted on 28-6-2020 at 11:06


Drugs are literally made in soda bottles. Shake'n'bake, anyone? Yep, that's also drug manufacturing. And seeing how most of the stuff is of inferior quality only tells that they find the easiest and fastest way to churn up that gunk. There is certainly a more sophisticated production, but it tends to dissipate in the flow because everything that is sold ahead will get cut with something. Drug market has always been on demand, so the price is high and quality is low. You pay big buck for stuff that can have less than 10% of active ingredients, which would be absolutely out of the question on any other product on the legal market. Drug manufacturing is happening everywhere, from industrial scale OC funded ops to simple individuals making a little extra buck with their skills in very small tabletop labs. The market dynamics have changed in the past decade quite a bit due to deep web and crypto - you don't have to have any connections to get the product distributed - and it actually protects you from getting caught because there is no trail of evidence if you play it low key and don't get greedy.

Laws regarding to chemistry tend to be designed for various things, and they cross many reactions right on. EU ban on many consumer chemicals makes even many common tabletop chemistry experiments very difficult, so many amateurs just tend not to care, hence, becoming criminals. Basically any nitrating reactions are banned, and in the future they plan on cracking down on a lot more stuff like sulfuric acid.

[Edited on 28-6-2020 by Refinery]
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