LHcheM
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Obtaining methyl methacrylate
How to obtain methyl methacrylate from household products?
can anyone show me how to do it with photos and descriptions?
thanks very much =]
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unionised
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How good is your French?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9ZAuwC8mdk
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LHcheM
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although my french is 0%, but that video helped me alot and at least I got some ideas about the distillation.
THANKS VERY MUCH!!! ^^
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mr.crow
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Smells like fun!
Is it actually the monomer or is he distilling plasticizers? I love the old style apothecary jar.
Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble
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Iguanaopolis
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In the video he demonstrates the produced liquid decolourising bromine water, so I would assume he has actually made the monomer.
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Hexagon
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Anyone knows if it is true that by fusing metacrylic acid (MMA) in alkaly one can obtain propionates?
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unionised
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Most polymethylmethacrylate hasn't got any plasticisers in it.
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not_important
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Poilyacrylic plastics and polystyrene are among the easiest plastics to depolymerise, both useful for hobby source of the monomers and for
demonstrating recycling. Both plastics are generally either free of or have only low concentrations of additives, colouring and solid filler being
the most common. Destructive distillation depolymerisation, collecting the distillate in a flask containing a small amount of polymerisation inhibitor
(hydroquinone, BHA, ...), and then a redistillation/fractionation generally gives clean product..
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smuv
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I've made Methyl methacrylate via the procedure in vogel. I used acrylic plastic cracked into pieces big enough to fit into the flask. The flask was
heated via free flame. The product which came over as a slightly colored oil was redistilled to yield what I deemed to be fairly pure methyl
methacrylate as a colorless oil. The product could be kept quite some time without polymerizing, but I forgot about it and it eventually did. The
reaction flask (for the depolymerization) is somewhat annoying to clean. Acetone with sand did the trick, the flask came out spotless.
Oh yeah, the stuff smells absolutely rank.
[Edited on 2-22-2011 by smuv]
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mr.crow
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Cool. It smelled pretty strong when I was using a dremel to cut plexiglass.
What could the monomer be used for?
Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble
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Paddywhacker
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Acrylates were used as stink bombs at political rallies, but that was rather a long time ago. Today's youth seems so much more housebroken by
comparison.
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LHcheM
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Dear smuv you said you've made MMA by free flame? How long did you take for the distillation process?
I distilled once for the monomer but it came out as some white fumes and the fumes condensed on the side of the test tube and became the polymer
again. The PMMA also chars and bubbles to give off those white fumes. But it my ice cold test tube, I received nothing @@
I got styrene monomer easily from a chemical supplier, it's denoted as SM which at first I didn't recognise it. But MMA is really hard to obtain.
Wikipedia saids that Shell is one of the largest manufacturer but I phoned them and they said they don't have it.
Actually what I want for MMA monomer is that I need to for my project to produce a Unsaturated Polyester Resin, then mix it with starch (or other
forms) which may possibly to make it Biodegradable. But since obtaining MMA monomer is the first crucial step, I can't start it as long as I don't
have MMA...
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madscientist
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Thread Moved
22-2-2011 at 07:35 |
smuv
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As I said, follow the procedure in Vogel (forum library, book called practical organic chemistry; use the index to find the prep). The yield is
quantitative but the catch is, you should interrupt heating when ~80% of the product has come over, to make it easier to clean the flask.
Mr. Cow: MMA is a reasonably activated Michael acceptor as well as a dienophile. Years ago, when I didn't have much organic experience under my
belt, I began a project involving the Michael addition of activated aromatics to MMA. The project never really got off the ground and even if it had
I would have been too incompetent to get any reasonable results, but...if you want to try a Michael addition or diels alder...mma is very OTC and can
be rapidly made in good purity with little effort or expense.
P.S. You could probably also use a heating mantle for the depolymerization.
[Edited on 2-22-2011 by smuv]
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DrRoboto
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Is there any way to go from methyl methacrylate to methyl acrylate? Perhaps you could de-esterify it to methacrylic acid in a similar way methyl
acrylate can be de-esterified to acrylic acid....and then...? Thanks.
[Edited on 5-9-2011 by DrRoboto]
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Fleaker
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This is stinky stuff and rather disagreeable to one's lungs. Be safe!
Neither flask nor beaker.
"Kid, you don't even know just what you don't know. "
--The Dark Lord Sauron
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DrRoboto
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Also, could one depolymerize Sodium polyacrylate (no further away than the nearest poopy diaper) into sodium acrylate monomer (which could then be
converted to acrylic acid via acid base reaction perhaps?)
Thanks.
Eh, crap, the answer's no:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/014139109090077K
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The degradation of sodium and potassium polyacrylate was studied under programmed heating conditions using thermogravimetry (TG), differential thermal
analysis (DTA) and thermal volatilisation analysis (TVA). These materials are stable up to about 400°C under programmed heating at 10° per min in
vacuo. The degradation products have been investigated by IR spectroscopy, mass spectrometry and GC-MS techniques, the volatile product fraction
having first been separated by subambient TVA. Degradation of these polymers leads to a wide range of products, which include dimer and trimer
fragments but only traces of monomer. A mechanism has been proposed which involves both homolysis of the chain, which may be followed by
intramolecular transfer and scission, and side group scission. |
Sigh.
[Edited on 6-9-2011 by DrRoboto]
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Fleaker
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I never tried. My experience was making PMMA.
I doubt it would work, if it did, it would have to be some sort of dry salt decomposition, and would probably be pretty messy and give a host of
products. Might need an acid catalyst.
Neither flask nor beaker.
"Kid, you don't even know just what you don't know. "
--The Dark Lord Sauron
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nezza
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This was an experiment we did at school. Perspex is polymethyl methacrylate and careful distillation of chunks of perspex gives the monomer as a
rather strong smelling liquid.
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Fleaker
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Meh, looks like I guessed right.
Neither flask nor beaker.
"Kid, you don't even know just what you don't know. "
--The Dark Lord Sauron
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mr.crow
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What could you use this compound for? Plexiglass glue sometimes has the monomer in it along with DCM
Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble
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bbartlog
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Alternatively (but rather less practically) the following synthesis could be done:
- chloroform (from bleach and acetone, the haloform reaction)
- then chloretone, from chloroform, acetone and sodium hydroxide (lye)
- finally esterification with methanol, using sulfuric acid
US patent 2226645 has some details on parts two and three, although there is also a synthesis of chloretone (aka chlorobutanol, aka
1,1,1-trichloro-2-methyl-2-propanol) on erowid, which may be superior.
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