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khourygeo77
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[*] posted on 13-7-2020 at 04:41
Coal & Derivatives


Hello,

I have been trying to get some information about coal experiments but for some reason couldn't find much on the web.

My aim is to find how coal would behave if it was subject to destructive distillation and what are the volatile compounds it would yield. Some sources stated the distillation can give off hydrocarbons however others stated that the yield of destructive distillation is gone through another process that makes hydrocarbons.

My purpose is to study what are the volatile compounds that are given out following destructive distillation and following hydrodistillation (grinding, adding water and distilling). And how different would the volatile compounds be for different types of coals? (Lignite, bituminous etc.)

Thanks for your time!!
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draculic acid69
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[*] posted on 13-7-2020 at 06:05


Amines,sulfur compounds, aromatics, hydrocarbons etc all of which are toxic and smelly
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Sulaiman
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[*] posted on 13-7-2020 at 07:14


Quote: Originally posted by khourygeo77  
Hello,

I have been trying to get some information about coal experiments but for some reason couldn't find much on the web.

You are joking right ?
The destructive distillation of coal was the basis for so much industry and research,
probably half of the chemical industry was coal product based.
You could start here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal




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Refinery
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[*] posted on 13-7-2020 at 09:20


The issue with goal, wood and other bulk feedstock is that it is generally economically viable only as a chain of industry. For coal, you will get coke, which is the main product by weight, and on the side, you get the pyrolysis gas and condensate, which is composed of all kinds of interesting compounds - perhaps only in the percent or parts per thousand or even less - but once you get 10 million tons of stuff going through the facility in a timeframe not that long, even that thou gets you truckloads of that specialty feedstock.

In home lab, that thou will get you perhaps 0.1mL of something.
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khourygeo77
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[*] posted on 13-7-2020 at 10:10


Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman  
Quote: Originally posted by khourygeo77  
Hello,

I have been trying to get some information about coal experiments but for some reason couldn't find much on the web.

You are joking right ?
The destructive distillation of coal was the basis for so much industry and research,
probably half of the chemical industry was coal product based.
You could start here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal


I started with here, then read some other wiki pages and tried to read some publications about experiments, but the info experiments were summarized or needed payment. For example, I don't know anything about the volatile compounds' ppm or about the differences of volatile compounds for different coal types.. I could only get very general info. Maybe many things weren't mentioned as well. I couldn't find any good publication about the matter...
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khourygeo77
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[*] posted on 13-7-2020 at 10:14


Quote: Originally posted by Refinery  
The issue with goal, wood and other bulk feedstock is that it is generally economically viable only as a chain of industry. For coal, you will get coke, which is the main product by weight, and on the side, you get the pyrolysis gas and condensate, which is composed of all kinds of interesting compounds - perhaps only in the percent or parts per thousand or even less - but once you get 10 million tons of stuff going through the facility in a timeframe not that long, even that thou gets you truckloads of that specialty feedstock.

In home lab, that thou will get you perhaps 0.1mL of something.


So you mean for every 1kg of coal, I can get maximum 1ml of condensate? Is this true for all types of coal? Because the volatile compounds vary from type to type (Lignite, bituminous etc.) And is there a document I can read explaining this?
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khourygeo77
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[*] posted on 13-7-2020 at 11:02


https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10653-013-9515-1

For example, this proves the very poor solubility of coal powder in water. This means that most likely almost nothing would be got out of hydrodistillation...
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[*] posted on 13-7-2020 at 11:53


Quote: Originally posted by khourygeo77  


So you mean for every 1kg of coal, I can get maximum 1ml of condensate? Is this true for all types of coal? Because the volatile compounds vary from type to type (Lignite, bituminous etc.) And is there a document I can read explaining this?

If you distil 1 Kg of coal you might get 20 ml of tar.
But that's a mixture of 1000 materials. Even allowing that some are more common than others, you might not get much more than 0.1 ml of any single component.
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[*] posted on 13-7-2020 at 13:26


I see a 500 ml bottle of USP (medical grade) coal tar for $150 , and a 5 gallon bucket of emulsion containing 15% coal tar for $68.

I suspect the savings in time by just buying it might be worth the expense if you want to work with coal tar.

Check around. You may be able to find it at a paving company, or maybe a drugstore in some countries.





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draculic acid69
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[*] posted on 13-7-2020 at 17:53


I have bout 40tanker cars pass nearby couple times a day.all goes to China.
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[*] posted on 14-7-2020 at 04:42


Quote: Originally posted by SWIM  
I see a 500 ml bottle of USP (medical grade) coal tar for $150 , and a 5 gallon bucket of emulsion containing 15% coal tar for $68.

I suspect the savings in time by just buying it might be worth the expense if you want to work with coal tar.

Check around. You may be able to find it at a paving company, or maybe a drugstore in some countries.



I was surprised by "medical grade coal tar", and looked it up. Apparently people put it on their skin to treat psoriasis! This seems like an absolutely terrible idea given its well-known toxicity.




As below, so above.
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[*] posted on 14-7-2020 at 18:02


If you look in the SciMad library, you will find "The Chemistry of Coal Tar Dyes." Chapter 2 is a discussion of coal tar and its products. You will not be in any hurry to do any coal distillation on a lab scale.

AvB
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khourygeo77
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[*] posted on 16-7-2020 at 15:34


Thanks all for the info.

"I was surprised by "medical grade coal tar", and looked it up. Apparently people put it on their skin to treat psoriasis! This seems like an absolutely terrible idea given its well-known toxicity."

Most medications are toxic and many medications are more toxic. However it would depend on the dose and on the use. For example if you use it for a few days or if you put a few drops, nothing would happen. If you use it for a year and put a good amount, then that would be bad.

Let's not forget that "the dose makes the poison" "the other CELSUS"and seeing that tar is composed of almost 10 000 compounds, it wont be easy for any compound to reach a very toxic level.
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[*] posted on 16-7-2020 at 15:46


It has been is soap for over 150 years. Got to be good for you right?
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Sulaiman
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[*] posted on 20-7-2020 at 00:28


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qi4rrQoruQ



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