khourygeo77
Hazard to Others
Posts: 114
Registered: 2-1-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Coal & Derivatives
Hello,
I have been trying to get some information about coal experiments but for some reason couldn't find much on the web.
My aim is to find how coal would behave if it was subject to destructive distillation and what are the volatile compounds it would yield. Some sources
stated the distillation can give off hydrocarbons however others stated that the yield of destructive distillation is gone through another process
that makes hydrocarbons.
My purpose is to study what are the volatile compounds that are given out following destructive distillation and following hydrodistillation
(grinding, adding water and distilling). And how different would the volatile compounds be for different types of coals? (Lignite, bituminous etc.)
Thanks for your time!!
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Amines,sulfur compounds, aromatics, hydrocarbons etc all of which are toxic and smelly
|
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3555
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by khourygeo77  | Hello,
I have been trying to get some information about coal experiments but for some reason couldn't find much on the web. |
You are joking right ?
The destructive distillation of coal was the basis for so much industry and research,
probably half of the chemical industry was coal product based.
You could start here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
|
|
|
Refinery
Hazard to Others
Posts: 371
Registered: 17-2-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: Still
|
|
The issue with goal, wood and other bulk feedstock is that it is generally economically viable only as a chain of industry. For coal, you will get
coke, which is the main product by weight, and on the side, you get the pyrolysis gas and condensate, which is composed of all kinds of interesting
compounds - perhaps only in the percent or parts per thousand or even less - but once you get 10 million tons of stuff going through the facility in a
timeframe not that long, even that thou gets you truckloads of that specialty feedstock.
In home lab, that thou will get you perhaps 0.1mL of something.
|
|
|
khourygeo77
Hazard to Others
Posts: 114
Registered: 2-1-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I started with here, then read some other wiki pages and tried to read some publications about experiments, but the info experiments were summarized
or needed payment. For example, I don't know anything about the volatile compounds' ppm or about the differences of volatile compounds for different
coal types.. I could only get very general info. Maybe many things weren't mentioned as well. I couldn't find any good publication about the matter...
|
|
|
khourygeo77
Hazard to Others
Posts: 114
Registered: 2-1-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Refinery | The issue with goal, wood and other bulk feedstock is that it is generally economically viable only as a chain of industry. For coal, you will get
coke, which is the main product by weight, and on the side, you get the pyrolysis gas and condensate, which is composed of all kinds of interesting
compounds - perhaps only in the percent or parts per thousand or even less - but once you get 10 million tons of stuff going through the facility in a
timeframe not that long, even that thou gets you truckloads of that specialty feedstock.
In home lab, that thou will get you perhaps 0.1mL of something. |
So you mean for every 1kg of coal, I can get maximum 1ml of condensate? Is this true for all types of coal? Because the volatile compounds vary from
type to type (Lignite, bituminous etc.) And is there a document I can read explaining this?
|
|
|
khourygeo77
Hazard to Others
Posts: 114
Registered: 2-1-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10653-013-9515-1
For example, this proves the very poor solubility of coal powder in water. This means that most likely almost nothing would be got out of
hydrodistillation...
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5102
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by khourygeo77 |
So you mean for every 1kg of coal, I can get maximum 1ml of condensate? Is this true for all types of coal? Because the volatile compounds vary from
type to type (Lignite, bituminous etc.) And is there a document I can read explaining this? |
If you distil 1 Kg of coal you might get 20 ml of tar.
But that's a mixture of 1000 materials. Even allowing that some are more common than others, you might not get much more than 0.1 ml of any single
component.
|
|
|
SWIM
National Hazard
Posts: 970
Registered: 3-9-2017
Member Is Offline
|
|
I see a 500 ml bottle of USP (medical grade) coal tar for $150 , and a 5 gallon bucket of emulsion containing 15% coal tar for $68.
I suspect the savings in time by just buying it might be worth the expense if you want to work with coal tar.
Check around. You may be able to find it at a paving company, or maybe a drugstore in some countries.
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
I have bout 40tanker cars pass nearby couple times a day.all goes to China.
|
|
|
Metacelsus
International Hazard
Posts: 2531
Registered: 26-12-2012
Location: Boston, MA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Double, double, toil and trouble
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by SWIM | I see a 500 ml bottle of USP (medical grade) coal tar for $150 , and a 5 gallon bucket of emulsion containing 15% coal tar for $68.
I suspect the savings in time by just buying it might be worth the expense if you want to work with coal tar.
Check around. You may be able to find it at a paving company, or maybe a drugstore in some countries.
|
I was surprised by "medical grade coal tar", and looked it up. Apparently people put it on their skin to treat psoriasis! This seems like an
absolutely terrible idea given its well-known toxicity.
|
|
|
AvBaeyer
National Hazard
Posts: 644
Registered: 25-2-2014
Location: CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
If you look in the SciMad library, you will find "The Chemistry of Coal Tar Dyes." Chapter 2 is a discussion of coal tar and its products. You will
not be in any hurry to do any coal distillation on a lab scale.
AvB
|
|
|
khourygeo77
Hazard to Others
Posts: 114
Registered: 2-1-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thanks all for the info.
"I was surprised by "medical grade coal tar", and looked it up. Apparently people put it on their skin to treat psoriasis! This seems like an
absolutely terrible idea given its well-known toxicity."
Most medications are toxic and many medications are more toxic. However it would depend on the dose and on the use. For example if you use it for a
few days or if you put a few drops, nothing would happen. If you use it for a year and put a good amount, then that would be bad.
Let's not forget that "the dose makes the poison" "the other CELSUS"and seeing that tar is composed of almost 10 000 compounds, it wont be easy for
any compound to reach a very toxic level.
|
|
|
B(a)P
International Hazard
Posts: 1111
Registered: 29-9-2019
Member Is Offline
Mood: Festive
|
|
It has been is soap for over 150 years. Got to be good for you right?
|
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3555
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qi4rrQoruQ
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
