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Author: Subject: Methanol from Acteone
schleerblitz
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[*] posted on 20-8-2020 at 04:39
Methanol from Acteone


Hi!

Does anyone know if there is any way of obtaining methanol from acteone, or if a Baeyer-Villiger oxidation can be performed on it? It's because I am trying to get some methanol, that is strictly controlled in my country, and all the ways I've seen and tried are either too expensive, or not effective enough.

And just so you know, the esterification of acetone would help, because if I could turn it into a methyl ester, I could than hydrolise it, and remove the formed methanol via destillation.

Any help is appreciated.
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macckone
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[*] posted on 20-8-2020 at 04:59


A number of automotive products generally contain methanol.
I would suggest looking at those.
Here in the US methanol is in windshield washer fluid and fuel additives (specifically gas line antifreeze).
The traditional method of obtaining methanol is via the destructive distillation of wood.
If you don't want to go that route I would suggest ethanol as a starting material.

https://www.researchgate.net/post/How_can_I_produce_methanol...
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Dr.Bob
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[*] posted on 20-8-2020 at 05:33


There is no practical way to convert acetone into methanol. But as noted, it is used in so many products as to be hard to regulate.
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schleerblitz
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[*] posted on 20-8-2020 at 05:55


Thanks for the help, I will take a look at the automotive products
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morganbw
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[*] posted on 20-8-2020 at 14:10


I have no clue of your country nor their restrictions,
Can you not just buy it?
I did.
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MadHatter
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[*] posted on 20-8-2020 at 15:18
Gas Line Antifreeze


If using that be sure to check the MSDS
from the manufacturer. Some of these
products use isopropanol. Distilling it from
winter blend windshield wiper fluid won't
be a problem if the only ingredients(other
coloring) are methanol and water. IIRC,
methanol doesn't form an azeotrope
with water. It boils at 64.7C(148.5F).




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reactofurnace
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[*] posted on 20-8-2020 at 19:54


You can get methanol from sterno portable burners. It is pricey for just a small volume of methanol though. But if you need it for just a few experiments it shouldn't be too bad to manage.


See if you can dissolve the gel in water and distill slowly under low heat.
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B(a)P
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[*] posted on 20-8-2020 at 19:59


I am yet to find a good source of methanol in Australia.
I can get it from my local laboratory supply store, but it is super expensive at $200 for 2.5 L!
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DrDevice
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[*] posted on 20-8-2020 at 21:25


Wandering a bit off topic here, but in Australia you can buy methanol racing fuel eg Outlaw Speed Shop sells 20l for ~$100
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Fyndium
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[*] posted on 21-8-2020 at 00:27


Generally in European zone methanol is phased out from consumer use due to issues regarding substitute alcohol use, so don't bother looking into automotive products. I have yet to see a single product that contains it. Some countries may have actually banned sales of methanol for consumers, but unless you find such a decree, you should look into suppliers that sell it for specific purposes, like as an RC fuel. In this instance, it is sold for 2 euros per liter otc in 99% purity and the prices halves if you buy a full barrel of it.
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draculic acid69
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[*] posted on 21-8-2020 at 03:35


Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
I am yet to find a good source of methanol in Australia.
I can get it from my local laboratory supply store, but it is super expensive at $200 for 2.5 L!


I also can not find any methanol in Oz otc.sydneysolvents is a place in Sydney that sells it for a reasonable price (unlike your labsupply place. Is it the test tube factory your talking about?)
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draculic acid69
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[*] posted on 21-8-2020 at 03:38


Quote: Originally posted by DrDevice  
Wandering a bit off topic here, but in Australia you can buy methanol racing fuel eg Outlaw Speed Shop sells 20l for ~$100


I seen someone with a 20l drum of methanol in the back of his ute which he said he paid$20 for. He said it was some racing supply place but I forgot the name )-:

[Edited on 21-8-2020 by draculic acid69]
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draculic acid69
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[*] posted on 21-8-2020 at 07:09


Quote: Originally posted by schleerblitz  
Hi!

Does anyone know if there is any way of obtaining methanol from acteone, or if a Baeyer-Villiger oxidation can be performed on it? It's because I am trying to get some methanol, that is strictly controlled in my country, and all the ways I've seen and tried are either too expensive, or not effective enough.

And just so you know, the esterification of acetone would help, because if I could turn it into a methyl ester, I could than hydrolise it, and remove the formed methanol via destillation.

Any help is appreciated.


Where did u get the idea acetone can be turned into methanol?
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macckone
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[*] posted on 21-8-2020 at 09:59


Methanol was removed from windshield washer/defroster fluid effective May of 2019 in the EU.

https://echa.europa.eu/substances-restricted-under-reach/-/d...

It is still allowed in gas line antifreeze and other automotive products as well as industrial products.

https://echa.europa.eu/substance-information/-/substanceinfo...
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B(a)P
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[*] posted on 21-8-2020 at 12:26


Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69  


Is it the test tube factory your talking about?)


It is literally called lab supply.
https://www.labsupply.com.au/
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RogueRose
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[*] posted on 21-8-2020 at 17:22


Find a drag strip and go to their on-site gas station. Ask the person for the methanol w/o the oil additive. It should be pretty darn cheap.
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Mateo_swe
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[*] posted on 22-8-2020 at 05:52


If you are inside EU you can order it on ebay
Methanol 99.85% 1 Litre (1L) High Purity **Shipped Legally by ADR Courier**
Its 9 Euro/Liter + shipping.
The shipping fee is quite high if you arent in UK but if you order other stuff from APC you can combine shipping and pay that high fee only 1 time for all items. It is delivered to your door.

You should be able to find Methanol at the local RC-shop as its used as fuel for RC racing cars and airplanes that uses standard motors (non electrical).
They probably have added some oil in the methanol but you can just distill it.
The RC-shop also sells nitro-fuel that is methanol, nitromethane and little oil.
It can also be distilled but the nitromethane and methanol will form an azeotrope that comes over first and its boiling point is very close to the methanol.
I dont know how to separate these but you would want the standard RC-fuel with just methanol and little oil.
So dont get the nitro variant.
The standard RC-fuel is only to distill to get the pure methanol.
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draculic acid69
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[*] posted on 23-8-2020 at 05:15


Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69  


Is it the test tube factory your talking about?)


It is literally called lab supply.
https://www.labsupply.com.au/


That's the new name of the old test tube factory.times the price of a product by ten and that's what they charge for it.i bought my first set of glassware from there for $3000.im glad we have eBay now bcoz for $500 I can get a better setup than I got back then.
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draculic acid69
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[*] posted on 23-8-2020 at 05:48


There prices haven't changed in 15yrs.
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NaK
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[*] posted on 1-9-2020 at 13:35


If you live someplace in europe where they banned toxic substances from otc sale you have these options:

1. get methanol cartridges for caravans (apparently it is used there). Quite expensive but local and OTC
2. order online from another EU country without so strict laws - Netherlands, UK, Poland, Latvia and there are more
3. If you are extremely desperate do some destrification on organic lamp oil which is basically fatty acid methyl ester (biodiesel)

[Edited on 1-9-2020 by NaK]
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TriiodideFrog
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[*] posted on 3-10-2020 at 00:06


You can react carbon monoxide with ethanol.
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