Nitrous2000
Hazard to Self
Posts: 56
Registered: 1-11-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Black Phosphorus Sources
Hi folks,
I'm looking at battery development and have come across some literature involving phosphorus, specifically black phosphorus.
I'm having trouble sourcing this at anything approaching a reasonable cost. In the alternative, red phosphorus can be converted to black phosphorus.
Occasionally, red phosphorus shows up on eBay but is there any reliable source for this? I appreciate the DEA / watched chemicals list implications
but I'm in Canada and the paperwork might be a little easier here. It's still a carefully controlled substance, even in Canada.
Thanks
Doug
|
|
|
njl
National Hazard
Posts: 609
Registered: 26-11-2019
Location: under the sycamore tree
Member Is Offline
Mood: ambivalent
|
|
https://sci-hub.st/http://dx.doi.org/10.1039/C9TA13441G
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5102
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
That's interesting,
I wonder if anyone has tried using this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylenetriamine
as the solvent, since it has a higher boiling point and wouldn't need an autoclave.
|
|
|
pip
Hazard to Others
Posts: 109
Registered: 19-9-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
How much red phosphorus would you need? The availability of a few grams is doable, a kilo probably not.
|
|
|
Nitrous2000
Hazard to Self
Posts: 56
Registered: 1-11-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by pip  | | How much red phosphorus would you need? The availability of a few grams is doable, a kilo probably not. |
50-100grams was my guess..
If the conversion goes well... I would have to make a more formal arrangement.
I'm about half way through my vacuum oven.... need a ramp PID
If you're interested, might get a sample of the black out of the deal  (a gift,
not a trade )
Thanks,
Doug
|
|
|
itsallgoodjames
Hazard to Others
Posts: 276
Registered: 31-8-2020
Location: America Lite
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by pip | | How much red phosphorus would you need? The availability of a few grams is doable, a kilo probably not. |
Where would one get those few grams of red phosphorus? For making haloalkanes, I've had to resort to using huge amounts of matchbox strikers, which
isn't exactly the purest.
Nuclear physics is neat. It's a shame it's so regulated...
Now that I think about it, that's probably a good thing. Still annoying though.
|
|
|
Nitrous2000
Hazard to Self
Posts: 56
Registered: 1-11-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Black Phosphorus Sources
yes, matches are not a practical source for making black phosphorus
Doug
|
|
|
DraconicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 4278
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-victorious.
|
|
I may be wrong, but don't you need the autoclave for the pressure to make the black phosphorus?
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
|
|
|
clearly_not_atara
International Hazard
Posts: 2692
Registered: 3-11-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: Big
|
|
DraconicAcid: Black phosphorus is the thermodynamically stable allotrope of phosphorus at standard conditions. However, the free energy advantage vs.
red phosphorus is so small, and the activation energy so large, it's basically the phosphorus equivalent of making diamond. Due to thermodynamics, any
process capable of depositing BP crystals should make them at any pressure...
That's a ridiculously huge improvement over the old methods. Except maybe "dissolved in molten bismuth", nothing we discussed in the old thread just
four years ago comes close to being that simple. Dan Vizine and Fery were talking about building special-purpose distillation apparatuses for this:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=12196
[Edited on 04-20-1969 by clearly_not_atara]
|
|
|
DraconicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 4278
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-victorious.
|
|
Thanks for the correction.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
