The WiZard is In
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La FDA bans 5-chemicals
http://www.justice.gov/dea/pubs/pressrel/pr030111.html
djh
---
Byda during the Clinton Admin. the US FDA to appease liberals —
declared that a white #10 envelope was a regulated medical
device and thus subject to their rules.
The California coastal commission declared that fireworks are
a structure and thus the commission can regulate them.
Never trust anyone over 30 . Perhaps. Never trust a bureaucrat - for sure that be.
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mewrox99
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[sarcasm]Big Surprise there![/sarcasm]
[Edited on 13-3-2011 by mewrox99]
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arsphenamine
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Consider what it is that they banned -- somewhat toxic synthetics that came out of cannabimimetic research. The ban seems a tolerably prudent
response in order to avoid a public health problem, as in, it's safer to ban the compounds than to pay for the aftermath.
Following links, you get the federal mandate which lists the pertinent compounds.
| Quote: | | The substances are 1-pentyl-3-(1- naphthoyl)indole (JWH-018), 1-butyl-3-(1-naphthoyl)indole (JWH-073), 1-
[2-(4-morpholinyl)ethyl]-3-(1-naphthoyl)indole (JWH-200), 5-(1,1- dimethylheptyl)-2-[(1R,3S)-3-hydroxycyclohexyl]-phenol (CP-47,497), and
5-(1,1-dimethyloctyl)-2-[(1R,3S)-3-hydroxycyclohexyl]-phenol (cannabicyclohexanol; CP-47,497 C8 homologue). |
These are only 5 of JW Huffman's 450 compound long oeuvre, but a few quick searches on naphthoylindoles and Huffman clarifies matters.
UPDATE: The compounds are banned from import as well. A quick search on alibaba.com lists a lot of chinese chemical suppliers willing to sell the
finished compound. Unlike amateur controlled substance cooks, these suppliers state purity.
It looks like these "spice" purveyors didn't even bother to synthesize the stuff themselves.
[Edited on 13-3-2011 by arsphenamine]
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entropy51
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| Quote: | | La FDA bans 5-chemicals |
Your link says the DEA banned them. Not the same agency.
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hissingnoise
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| Quote: | | The substances are 1-pentyl-3-(1- naphthoyl)indole (JWH-018), 1-butyl-3-(1-naphthoyl)indole (JWH-073), 1-
[2-(4-morpholinyl)ethyl]-3-(1-naphthoyl)indole (JWH-200), 5-(1,1- dimethylheptyl)-2-[(1R,3S)-3-hydroxycyclohexyl]-phenol (CP-47,497), and
5-(1,1-dimethyloctyl)-2-[(1R,3S)-3-hydroxycyclohexyl]-phenol (cannabicyclohexanol; CP-47,497 C8 homologue). |
Oh yeah, can't you just hear those names slip effortlessly from the lips of the geniuses in the DEA!?!
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mr.crow
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"wrongly equate the products' ‘legal’ retail availability with being ‘safe’"
That kind of pisses me off, they equate legal with LEGAL. The influx of crappy designer drugs recently is because people don't want to break the law.
Instead they have to turn themselves into guinea pigs for knockoff versions of real drugs.
Of course I still think they should be banned
Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble
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hissingnoise
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The upside is - the more highfalutin names they have to contend with the better!
Their peanut brains will become "overloaded" with jawbreakers and they'll implode with a very dull thud!
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hissingnoise
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| Quote: | | Of course I still think they should be banned |
The thing in most need of banning is the DEA!
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arsphenamine
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Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  | | Quote: | | The substances are 1-pentyl-3-(1- naphthoyl)indole (JWH-018), ... ad nauseum |
Oh yeah, can't you just hear those names slip effortlessly from the lips of the geniuses in the DEA!?! |
Heh!
It's going to be "JWH-018" in written reports and simply "18" in conversation.
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hissingnoise
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Yeah, yeah, we know, but there's always room for complete cock-ups!
Hopefully . . .
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Magic Muzzlet
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The kids just couldn't take the utter saturation of their receptors, and thought they could handle smoking large amounts.  then they freaked out, went to hospital etc etc...
Nothing new here.
The smoking blends are a bad idea though, I actually think they should be banned unless they are able to state how much actives they contain per gram
of plant material.
This is not a big deal though, as said above there are hundreds of other compounds that are active. whatever, DEA.
[Edited on 13-3-2011 by Magic Muzzlet]
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497
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All that banning them is going to do is encourage further development of analogues. And some of the future ones are bound to be more harmful (and
potent) than the current ones.. There is no end in sight. When will they see that prohibitions end up causing much worse problems than the prohibited
drug would if it were controlled and taught to be used responsibly? I can't believe the US didn't learn its lesson from the alcohol prohibition.
Such a huge fraction of the harm that illegal drugs cause (and paradoxically the justification for their prohibition) is from either their
inconsistent/poor purity or a lack of any education about how to deal with them safely. Yet both major causes of harm are only present because of the
prohibition and could be easily eliminated by legalization and education.
Did anyone ever wonder if they were creating a self fulfilling prophecy by saturating every school aged teenager with propaganda that all drugs are
bad, cannot be used safely, and somehow take away your capability to control and be responsible for your own actions?? Did anyone every try teaching
that drugs, like any other powerful object (guns, cars, etc) can cause great harm if used irresponsibly BUT that if they are understood they can be
used relatively safely and maybe even benefit some? So frustrating..
And it works: http://healthland.time.com/2010/11/23/portugals-drug-experie...
Most interesting to me is the possibility for a near complete elimination of homegrown meth labs in the US if it were legalized. I think this would
have a huge beneficial effect on amateur/private chemistry by eliminating or reducing the ridiculous chemical restrictions caused by them..
[Edited on 13-4-2011 by 497]
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quicksilver
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The legislation contends with variety analogs by using verbiage such as "chemical structures similar to, or designed to have the effect of"...... The
basic reason why alcohol had been legalized is the tax revenue mechanism had actually been in place. A structured taxation agenda was easily worked
into the manufacturing process. Money is the deciding element of legality.
With drugs there is an impediment in that the mechanism is not in place already and taxation methods on a new form of consumer goods is not as easily
implemented as one would think. Two (or more) competing force are at work here. One is the oversight element (FDA) another is the taxation element.
For alcohol, tobacco, & firearms, that's already in existence. Drugs have many complications if they were to be taken from a black-market arena.
Enormous amounts of money are provided to various agencies with no Congressional oversight. A great many jobs exist in this "war on drugs" The DEA is
actually an international and national intelligence organization with a streamlined mode of operation that would be difficult to replace. This is a
complex issue, that has a decided "domino effect" if sweeping changes are affected.
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497
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"chemical structures similar to, or designed to have the effect of"
Heh, isn't this reminiscent of the analogue act? From what I understood it was considered to be too vague to be very useful to actually prosecute
anyone with. Would this not also apply to the quoted legislation?
I don't see how drugs are fundamentally different than alcohol (other than the larger variety of them) when it comes to regulation or taxation. Its
true that there is no manufacturing infrastructure to tax right now, but would that not quickly appear if legalization occurred? Considering the
potential amounts of money to be gained by manufacturers, retailers, and governments it seems like ample incentive.. Not to mention lower deaths from
overdoses and other symptoms of addiction, lower health care costs, and enormous savings from the reduction of around half of the current prison
population!
Like any war, there is a lot of profiteering going on by some of those who wage it. That seems like all the more reason to put an end to it.
[Edited on 13-4-2011 by 497]
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quicksilver
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The fascinating thing here is that from a legalistic perspective, the level of the ability to prosecute on analog act verbiage alone is not always at
issue. Once the guys' in the courtroom he's generally toast in that there is most often padding to the prosecution's efforts to make his case. Indeed,
one of the thrusts of any good Prosecutor's case presentation is a plea bargain that nets him a conviction.....So...if the idiosyncrasies of the case
don't reach merit on something like the analog act, the fellows' still being prosecuted for possession with intent, or attempt to manufacture. He
doesn't even need to meet the level of having List chemicals in possession as the ATTEMPT is prosecutable. It's similar to selling phoney drugs. A
good prosecutor can make a case behind a placebo sales, etc. To get that however he needs to meet certain requirements and have run his mouth. That
takes a great deal of case prep and money. So they save that for the big fish.
In narcotics prosecution the key is to get enough charges so the guy is choking for air. He will plead out to lesser charges and the State (or Fed)
still wins. This is very similar to tax fraud. If you're in court from a single year's mis-filing, that prosecutor is wasting his time; that's why the
Fed will bargain to get SOME money back on a single instance. HOWEVER, if they have multiple violations; there is where they have a serious amount of
leverage.
Al Capone didn't go down from one year's mis-filing.....he got real time in federal prison from multiple charges. The idea is to have "padding".
However, please understand that I am not (from personal opinion) a supporter of the "war on drugs": in any manner. I (personally) believe it has done
an enormous amount of harm & frankly, a disservice to the country as a whole. Just my opinion but I believe that there are in place a great many
factors as to WHY this issues continues. But the greatest reason is money & access to intelligence. Once the DEA crossed over to a intelligence
platform from the old Bureau of Narcotics, the stage was set for this to continue for reasons OUTSIDE that of public health.
[Edited on 13-4-2011 by quicksilver]
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497
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"So they save that for the big fish"
Yeah, that was kind of what I meant. I should have said not very useful to prosecute many people with..
This issue is so frustrating. They continue to wage a costly war that by nature can never be won in the name of public health while everyone involved
knows it has nothing to do with public health. Tricky bastards, they knew that with the right propaganda they could easily form public opinion in a
way that makes it political suicide for any politician trying to stop the war. That's the ultimate way to keep a war going... How can it be stopped?
It seems obvious that it is not sustainable.
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MagicJigPipe
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Anyone who still believes that public health is a good reason to ban drugs is apparently incapable of critical thought. I think it says something
that I, someone who was completely for the prohibition of all drugs except alcohol when I was younger but, as I grew up and I started reading more,
and my ability for critical thought beyond what I was indoctrinated with grew, my opinion changed to thinking that all drugs should be legal even if
the public health risk just slightly grew. I think there is more risk to public happiness and well-being with the current system in place than can be
caused by any type of drug. I have seen just about as much pain, suffering and general unhappiness caused directly or otherwise by drug PROHIBITION
as by the drugs themselves. Go read your fake-ass reports and quote some journals saying drugs cause addiction and are toxic--shit, even go downtown
and look at the junkies and make misinformed judgements on why those people are in that position. But until you've seen what's really going on time
and time again first hand you don't really understand why prohibition is one of the main sources if not the main source of crushed lives, crying
children (oh yeah, I used that) and unhappiness in this country.
Some people benifit from going to jail. Most, however, go to jail and go right back to using afterwards. Then they inevitably get caught again and
the cycle repeats ad nauseum. These people's lives, though less happy than the rest of us, would be better if they could just do pure and relatively
safe drugs in private. Often these people are even more depressed while sober. There is just something wrong with them to where they must use drugs
in order to feel "right". The ones that can learn to do it in moderation have the problem somewhat solved--but the illegality of it turns these
otherwise non-self-destructive (more than average) productive citizens into wards of the state that often must resort to other crimes in order simply
to feel normal and stay productive (not to mention giving a large portion of their income inevitabley to those violent cartels). Not to mention a lot
of people would do less drugs less often if they knew for sure that they could get them whenever they want. I know that sounds weird but it
definitely exists as a phenomenon. It has something to do with novelty and realizing that even if you don't "get high" right now you can always do it
later. If your next acquisition is uncertain you can't really plan for it and it just contributes to a mindset of instant gratification. This even
goes for some people quitting drugs. If they know they could feel better at any time it would be easier for them to go longer without using because
they don't have to go ahead and buy the drugs now because they might not be available later.
If even one innocent person is raped by our laws when they are working as they were designed then there is something fucked up about that law. How
the fuck can we justify screwing innocent people for the sake of our "public health"? That's the most selfish bullshit EVER. This shit turns
otherwise good people into raving psychotics with a thirst for the blood of the innocent (the police and policy-makers). Often prohibitionists have
the moral fortitude of a mid-16th century English monarch and they actually believe that the War On Drugs makes everyone's life better. Yes, some.
But more often than not it destroys lives.
To give a good example of how absolutely brainwashed and morally bankrupt Americans can be when it comes to combatting drugs look at the "War On
Drugs" in Northern Mexico. If both Mexico and the United States made the most popular drugs legal (and began providing ways for the public to meet
the demands of the consumers) the murder rate in both countries (especially Mexico) would go down exponentially with almost 100% certainty. But
what's more important than thousands of dead people every year JUST IN MEXICO ALONE? Our so-called "public health". And we can't even demonstrate
beyond a reasonable doubt if it even would have a net negative effect on public health!
Is there anyone here that is believes in drug prohibition and also believes that we should be able to eat anything we want?
Furthermore, I don't think it's just a coincidence that many if not most people on this site are at least skeptical of prohibition (I'm sure the
critical thinking skills of the people here are above average compared to the general population).
EDIT
I'm even willing to admit that some drugs should be illegal or at least heavily regulated. At the very least marijuana should be legal or alcohol
made illegal if for nothing else but consistency. I think the fact that alcohol is legal gives much evidence to the fact that this is more about
culture and pushing so-called morals onto other people. One of the ultimate hypocritical moments is when a cop throws an otherwise law-abiding
citizen in jail, subsequently destroying that person's family and alienating him/her from their children and then goes home and gets drunk.
I will say without any doubt that anyone who supports marijuana prohibition (possibly even all drug prohibition) and drinks alcohol is a hypocrite to
the highest degree. I know that is most people and I don't care. The truth is the truth. I can be friends with these people and have respect for
them in other areas but that doesn't change my above-stated opinion.
[Edited on 4-14-2011 by MagicJigPipe]
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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quicksilver
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One of the most potent barriers to altering existing laws is that there is an infrastructure that supports them. This in turn stands to reason where
an addict will act in a socially inappropriate manner to obtain said drugs. One feeds the other.
The junky steals from virtually anyone, does anything, etc to maintain his/her habit. This in-turn justifies the existing laws by creating negative
stereo-types & in fact has an great deal of truth to the condition via social structure & activities of the user. What's more we have a
"treatment industry" that thrives on this. Private Psychiatric hospitals have for decades had a wing which would provide a "drug & alcohol rehab".
Private (& some public) hospital administrations can make enormous amounts of capital from this agenda. Everything from book sales to hospital
census padding thrive from the status quo.
To make any inroads here, more money would have to be provided and an unwilling, economically stretched public does not have this as a priority,
especially when socially inappropriate behavior is at the fore-front of the public's picture of the "drug user".
To make matters worse, we would be eliminating jobs (drug enforcement) which now have moved from a less valuable area of the old Bureau of Narcotics
to a new format that is a valuable intelligence arm that operates both on foreign soil and domestically. It is intrenched in many differing areas: a
part of our overall social structure, etc.
Additionally, the public has a very negative stereotype of the drug user. We have the "Charlie Sheen" stereotype in our face every five minutes! Who
would really even consider a potential sacrifice in terms of money, social adjustment, & political risk for such a thing? To play the "Devil's
Advocate" it's easy to see the risks outweigh the rewards (as all the "rewards" are potential & tough to prove). It would be an up-hill battle for
the least publicly praise-worthy of society.
The gut reaction (IMO) would be something of; "why should I take risks, use funding, or alter society for a potential benefit when the risk is
obvious".
Many people are aware that putting a person in prison for a "crime" like simple possession is a disservice to society, not to mention the individual -
yet to prove that changing such a thing is difficult because of the "slippery slope" potential. Many would not have a problem altering marijuana laws
but what of other drugs? Here is where the "hard sell" begins. This would occur because the level of positive change may only be felt when drug laws
as a whole are altered to bring this from a law enforcement agenda to a medical agenda. And that is really effective when no dividing line exists in
terms of what someone wants to put into their body.
The problem becomes complex as the result of [using] one drug obviously is not the same as another; yet the concept of self determination is not so
exclusive.
[Edited on 14-4-2011 by quicksilver]
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497
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I fully agree with you. It seems like a very worthy thing to endeavor to change.. For both the good of amateur chemistry and public health in general.
If I wasn't so much more interested in chemistry maybe I'd go into politics and try to make some kind of difference... Although on second though
politicians may not really be in the best position to make these changes. I don't know.. God damn it's almost too depressing to think about for
extended periods.
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hissingnoise
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| Quote: | | God damn it's almost too depressing to think about for extended periods. |
The word "almost" is superfluous here . . .
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anotheronebitesthedust
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This documentary sums up the war on drugs very well.
Exile Nation Project
http://vimeo.com/20896209
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Ephoton
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I dont think these indoles are too hard to make for a lot of us.
some of them were not very toxic either from memory and had
much better anti cancer properties than THC.
[Edited on 18-4-2011 by Ephoton]
e3500 console login: root
bash-2.05#
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arsphenamine
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Yup. Most economists, when pressed, estimate the illicit drug trade at 10% of the world economy. In the case of Wall Street
finance, it is an immense source of liquid funds when laundered -- effectively legal for named entities on the NY Stock Exchange.
That's some very high dollar infrastructure, and the US Secretary of State, during a visit in Mexico, let slip that drug legalization wouldn't work
because there's too much money in it.
The original reasons for criminalizing drug use were small-minded, intent on social control. Like any laws that outlaw ordinary behavior, the
prohibition generates big business.
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jon
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we all need to make a case for the childeren's future it's imperative we make the world a better place for our childeren to live in.
as responsible adults anything less is selfishness.
(begin rant now speaker of the house.)
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