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Author: Subject: CBD as a chemotherapy agent (split from CBD solubility in organic solvents)
S.C. Wack
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[*] posted on 16-10-2021 at 17:53


Which of course has nothing to do with what unionised said.

BTW if anyone knows, are heavy insoluble "nontoxic" oils still nontoxic when injected IV in such amounts?





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[*] posted on 17-10-2021 at 00:09


Quote: Originally posted by S.C. Wack  
Which of course has nothing to do with what unionised said.

BTW if anyone knows, are heavy insoluble "nontoxic" oils still nontoxic when injected IV in such amounts?


Do they not use glycols or such to solvate them?
I heard drug users used glycols for cannabinoid injections(not the classical ones like THC, but the similarly insoluble aminoalkylindoles).
But then again, animal tests are not designed for comfort.




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[*] posted on 17-10-2021 at 06:01


Quote: Originally posted by macckone  
You clearly did not read that link thoroughly. The monkey study determined an ld50 of something a little over 210mg/kg and it was 9 days not 90

Well, one of us didn't read it...


90 days.JPG - 24kB
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[*] posted on 17-10-2021 at 06:20


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
Do they not use glycols or such to solvate them?


Cannabinoids were administered after solubilization in sesame oil for the oral route or as an aqueous emulsion for the iv route. The drug formulations used presently were developed for previous investigations and the vehicles and physical characteristics of the aqueous emulsion were shown not to contribute to toxic manifestations (Rosenkrantz et al., 1972). Aqueous formulations were prepared from a stock solution of cannabinoid in sesame oil (300-400 mg/ml): 5-7 ml of stock solution were sonicated with 0.5 ml Polysorbate 80 and 42-44 ml isotonic saline for 30-60 sec; final concentrations of ingredients were approximately 4% cannabinoid, 10% sesame oil, 1% Polysorbate 80, and 85% isotonic saline. Control emulsion contained no cannabinoid. Aqueous drug formulations were injected into the saphenous vein at a rate of 2 ml/min using a disposable syringe. For intragastric administration, appropriate volumes of stock solutions were introduced via a French catheter which was rinsed with 3 ml of sesame oil after delivery of drug.

I wouldn't think that solubilization in anything would last long IV. It's hard to believe that such an insoluble substance wouldn't cause problems. BTW sesame oil is polyunsaturated and has a lot of fatty acid in it.

[Edited on 17-10-2021 by S.C. Wack]




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[*] posted on 17-10-2021 at 08:11


"as aqueous emulsion", uhm, that sounds similar to these depot injections they use for some pharmaceuticals, like antipsychotics for inmates and such.
Wouldn't the CBD, THC or whatever form a similar depot to those hardly soluble salts?
I mean, those are insoluble oils.
In case of these depot injections, designed to act weeks or even longer(no idea), the substance is at least somewhat soluble in the body fluids and will be gone after some time.
But in case of an insoluble substance... wouldn't the body just try to encapsulate it?




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[*] posted on 17-10-2021 at 10:55


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
"as aqueous emulsion", uhm, that sounds similar to these depot injections they use for some pharmaceuticals, like antipsychotics for inmates and such.

No it doesn't because
Quote: Originally posted by S.C. Wack  


Cannabinoids were administered after solubilization in sesame oil for the oral route or as an aqueous emulsion for the iv route.

[Edited on 17-10-2021 by S.C. Wack]

Depot injections are given IM not IV
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[*] posted on 17-10-2021 at 11:26


Alright, but it doesn't it clog up the venes similarly?
In those huge doses?

I know how strongly people can react on the soy oil emulsion in which propofol is given usually, and those are tiny amounts in comparison.
Its likely not the fault of the soy oil in special, I am sure sesame oil causes the same issues when injected as emulsion.




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[*] posted on 17-10-2021 at 13:50


It's largely beside the point what reaction the vehicle produces.

"final concentrations of ingredients were approximately 4% cannabinoid, 10% sesame oil, 1% Polysorbate 80, and 85% isotonic saline. Control emulsion contained no cannabinoid."
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[*] posted on 19-10-2021 at 07:57


The injection controls did not die. The IV cannabinoids died only at higher concentrations, hence the LD50 of over 210mg/kg.
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[*] posted on 19-10-2021 at 09:03


It's interesting to see what else is in that ballpark (from wiki's page about LD 50) , though it's important to realise that most things are much more toxic if given IV than orally.

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[*] posted on 19-10-2021 at 11:13


Yay, oral uranium is half as deadly as intravenous CBD!
I guess I'll stop having a breakfast fix of CBD and switch over to sprinkling uranium on my breakfast cereals :cool:

Ok well, given the recent price for CBD, this might be a cost issue, but taking oral uranium definitely looks better than pushing that viscous oil into my veins three times a day :o
I'll have to check and compare first...


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[Edited on 19-10-2021 by karlos³]




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[*] posted on 19-10-2021 at 12:22


non-water soluble compounds tend to be more toxic as an IV because they are less readily absorbed via the gut.

The high end chemo drugs are usually given as IV.
Some stuff like xeloda is given in pill form but converts to the active form in the liver. Which was good for my treatment because stage 4 with liver involvement. However, it did liver damage and I am still dealing with that years later.
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