Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: Making rubies using microwave
Bedlasky
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 949
Registered: 15-4-2019
Location: In Turgon's hidden city
Member Is Offline

Mood: Unavailable

[*] posted on 29-10-2021 at 19:51
Making rubies using microwave


Hi,

I came across this interesting method of making synthethic rubies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybcdRQmQcHQ




View user's profile View All Posts By User
elementcollector1
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2684
Registered: 28-12-2011
Location: The Known Universe
Member Is Offline

Mood: Molten

[*] posted on 7-11-2021 at 10:18


Realistically, this is more of a 'ruby powder' or 'ruby bead' synthesis, given his setup, but there's no shame in that, and he definitely achieved ruby!

That said, I have to wonder how this would go if he could keep it molten for longer - with a silicon carbide block, maybe, or some other decent microwave receptor. Might at least get a ruby 'glass'.

I'm currently building a DIY at-home Czochralski furnace that reaches 2000 C to grow my own sapphires - it's complicated, but not out of reach for the ordinary chemist if they're willing to put in the work and understand the concepts.

[Edited on 11/7/2021 by elementcollector1]




Elements Collected:52/87
Latest Acquired: Cl
Next in Line: Nd
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Triflic Acid
National Hazard
****




Posts: 460
Registered: 27-9-2020
Member Is Offline

Mood: Sulfonated

[*] posted on 8-11-2021 at 06:11


Speaking about rubies, I've put in the last few weeks of work towards making a perfectly clear arc-melted ruby. What I've ended up doing is mixing potassium dichromate into the aluminum oxide and then arcing it. This reacts with the carbon produced and gives a transparent gem. I think that the potassium ions are screwing up my results, so CrO3 would be ideal. Does anyone have any tips on producing it from K2Cr2O7, preferably without destroying my dwindling stock of sulfuric acid. I have about ~500mL left and don't want to go distilling just yet.



Hope is not a reagent
View user's profile View All Posts By User
woelen
Super Administrator
*********




Posts: 7698
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: interested

[*] posted on 8-11-2021 at 06:53


Why use CrO3? Can't you make rubies with Cr2O3, which is much easier to obtain and also is much safer to use? At those very high temperatures, the CrO3 loses oxygen anyway and it does not oxidize anything, when it is mixed with Al2O3.

If you really want to use CrO3, you can buy that at a good price, both at Onyxmet and at Chemcraft. If you are in the EU, then I think that the net price, including shipping, will be comparable from both suppliers. If you are outside the EU, Chemcraft probably will be a little cheaper. I have purchased the chemical from both suppliers. Chemcraft's is a fine-grained solid, which most likely is easier to mix, but Onyxmet's is less humid, the latter is a perfectly dry sample of fairly large scales.




The art of wondering makes life worth living...
Want to wonder? Look at https://woelen.homescience.net
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
MadHatter
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1244
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Maine
Member Is Offline

Mood: Enjoying retirement

[*] posted on 8-11-2021 at 10:45
Ruby


Woelen, I'm with you on Cr2O3. I buy mine from a pottery shop.
BTW, if you want sapphire most likely you'll need titanium.

Triflic Acid, can you get or make ammonium dichromate ?
This is quite flammable and produces Cr2O3 as the only solid.




From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
View user's profile View All Posts By User
metalresearcher
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 684
Registered: 7-9-2010
Member Is Offline

Mood: Reactive

[*] posted on 8-11-2021 at 11:04


I have tried it by mixing Al2O3 with 1-2% green Cr2O3 heating by a welder wit carbon electrodes and indeed a few small pinkish ruby beads appeared. Using a blackled lamp, they fluoresce nicely.

Quote:
I'm currently building a DIY at-home Czochralski furnace that reaches 2000 C to grow my own sapphires - it's complicated, but not out of reach for the ordinary chemist if they're willing to put in the work and understand the concepts.

elementcollector1: Making a Czochralski furnace ? That should be a tedious task, you need a very pure crucible and a strictly controlled device to pull the crystals slowly from the liquid. And how do you heat the furnace ? A temp of 2000+ C can only be obtained by special heating elements, even the 1700 C Kanthal Super don't suffice. And burning H2 or propane in oxygen costs a lot of high pressure O2 cylinders.
A (n abandoned) medical zeolite based O2 generator generated not sufficient O2.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Admagistr
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 120
Registered: 4-11-2021
Location: Central Europe
Member Is Offline

Mood: The dreaming alchemist

[*] posted on 8-11-2021 at 15:37


Quote: Originally posted by Bedlasky  
Hi,

I came across this interesting method of making synthethic rubies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybcdRQmQcHQ


I tried to make rubies in the microwave, of aluminium wool, according to the YouTube instructions, but I failed, occasionally a microscopic ruby arose, but it was no success...That's why I invented my own method. I used a loop of aluminum wire, of high purity, diameter d = 1mm. Direct the first experiment ended in success... I'm sending some photos from the experiment...Adam


IMG_6906.JPG - 2.4MBIMG_6911.JPG - 3MB
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Admagistr
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 120
Registered: 4-11-2021
Location: Central Europe
Member Is Offline

Mood: The dreaming alchemist

[*] posted on 8-11-2021 at 15:51


I have to add that I placed the Al wire in question on a powder mixture of Al2O3+Cr2O3. Composed of 98% Al2O3 and 2% Cr2O3. I'm sending a few more pictures that didn't fit in the previous posts. There's one ruby drop at the end of the overcooked Al wire;)!Unfortunately, though, I had to stop the reaction after more than 20 seconds because something started burning in the microwave oven and it smelled very bad...


IMG_6914.JPG - 2.7MBIMG_6908.JPG - 3.2MB
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Admagistr
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 120
Registered: 4-11-2021
Location: Central Europe
Member Is Offline

Mood: The dreaming alchemist

[*] posted on 8-11-2021 at 16:24


Quote: Originally posted by elementcollector1  
Realistically, this is more of a 'ruby powder' or 'ruby bead' synthesis, given his setup, but there's no shame in that, and he definitely achieved ruby!

That said, I have to wonder how this would go if he could keep it molten for longer - with a silicon carbide block, maybe, or some other decent microwave receptor. Might at least get a ruby 'glass'.

I'm currently building a DIY at-home Czochralski furnace that reaches 2000 C to grow my own sapphires - it's complicated, but not out of reach for the ordinary chemist if they're willing to put in the work and understand the concepts.

[Edited on 11/7/2021 by elementcollector1]


Hi, do you have a video or a link to information about your homemade Czochralski oven!? With more enthusiasts involved in the construction, we can help each other and share our experiences! Thanks, Adam.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Admagistr
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 120
Registered: 4-11-2021
Location: Central Europe
Member Is Offline

Mood: The dreaming alchemist

[*] posted on 8-11-2021 at 16:55
Rubies and unusual thermite mixture...


I'm sending a video I made about a year ago, capturing my idea and my efforts to create a ruby melt from Al2(MoO4)3+Cr2O3+Al, in a chamotte crucible. The ruby melt was indeed formed, even sprayed into the surrounding area in response, but it is heavily contaminated with molybdenum, which has not melted and separate from it, unfortunately. I have it confirmed by X-ray analysis. I mean, a lot of MoO3 was squeezing out, as you can see in the video...I recommend you watch the video in full size;-).But I really enjoyed the pyrotechnic effect...
I posted the video on a profile of a friend of mine who's an astrophysicist. His name is Stanislav Hledík. It was back when I didn't have my own YouTube account. The video is still unofficial, in a working version, and will only be translated into English later. But there are important equations in his description, describing the reaction that everyone here at the forum understands;-)...Note how long the mixture burns and stays hot...I invented this mixture myself:-)

https://www.youtube.com/…SRg
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Admagistr
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 120
Registered: 4-11-2021
Location: Central Europe
Member Is Offline

Mood: The dreaming alchemist

[*] posted on 8-11-2021 at 17:04


https://youtu.be/lEosDA7nSRg
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Triflic Acid
National Hazard
****




Posts: 460
Registered: 27-9-2020
Member Is Offline

Mood: Sulfonated

[*] posted on 8-11-2021 at 21:22


Well, my issue is that the large rubies tend to be really cloudy for me. I want some nice clear gems for my collection. The K2Cr2O7 somewhat solved the problem, since it got decently less cloudy after adding it. I agree that most of it is likely losing oxygen and becoming worthless, but some of it does seem to be helping the issue. I'm not sure if this was unclear in my original post, but I'm adding a small amount of dichromate to the Cr2O3, not using just dichromate.



Hope is not a reagent
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Admagistr
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 120
Registered: 4-11-2021
Location: Central Europe
Member Is Offline

Mood: The dreaming alchemist

[*] posted on 9-11-2021 at 13:44


Quote: Originally posted by Triflic Acid  
Well, my issue is that the large rubies tend to be really cloudy for me. I want some nice clear gems for my collection. The K2Cr2O7 somewhat solved the problem, since it got decently less cloudy after adding it. I agree that most of it is likely losing oxygen and becoming worthless, but some of it does seem to be helping the issue. I'm not sure if this was unclear in my original post, but I'm adding a small amount of dichromate to the Cr2O3, not using just dichromate.


There is no need to use Cr2O3 for rubies in synthesis at all. I am sending proof, with this photograph, that the rubies were made in a crucible of technical corundum, purity 96%, using only K2Cr2O7! The mixture in the crucible was melted at 1000 C with a mixture composition of Li2CO3+Al2O3+K2Cr2O7+MoO3 for approximately 7 hours.

IMG_1007.JPG - 454kBIMG_1014.JPG - 441kB
View user's profile View All Posts By User
DraconicAcid
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 3925
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Offline

Mood: Semi-victorious.

[*] posted on 9-11-2021 at 13:59


Nice!

The synthesis of rubies has been on my mind since 1989. I may have to actually try it some day.




Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Admagistr
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 120
Registered: 4-11-2021
Location: Central Europe
Member Is Offline

Mood: The dreaming alchemist

[*] posted on 9-11-2021 at 16:39


Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
Nice!

The synthesis of rubies has been on my mind since 1989. I may have to actually try it some day.


Thanks for the compliment. Make sure you try and let me know how it goes, you might have more success than me;-). I am sending photos, from a similar experiment, but without Li2CO3 and K2Cr2O7. I only had a tiny platinum bowl that couldn't even fit a whole mixture of Al2O3+MoO3+Cr2O3, so I only filled it in part. I heated it at 1000 C for about six hours, in a crucible furnace lined with chammote. I used a CaO to capture the MoO3 vapor. MoO3 also works on beryls-emeralds, chrysoberyls, zircons, hafnons, bromellites synthesis and some spinels that do not contain Mg;-)! Adam



IMG_2818.JPG - 783kB IMG_2865.JPG - 380kB


Edit(woelen): removed email address

[Edited on 11-11-21 by woelen]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Triflic Acid
National Hazard
****




Posts: 460
Registered: 27-9-2020
Member Is Offline

Mood: Sulfonated

[*] posted on 9-11-2021 at 17:07


You could likely have some success with a tantalum or tungsten crucible, if you could get your hands on one



Hope is not a reagent
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Admagistr
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 120
Registered: 4-11-2021
Location: Central Europe
Member Is Offline

Mood: The dreaming alchemist

[*] posted on 9-11-2021 at 17:20


Quote: Originally posted by Triflic Acid  
You could likely have some success with a tantalum or tungsten crucible, if you could get your hands on one


Thanks for the advice. Tantalum might be used to go, but it would corrode...Tungsten would corrode even more. In fact, MoO3 is very corrosive to metals at high temperatures because it dissolves the protective layer of oxide on their surface:-(Metals seem to be the best material in platinum, but unfortunately it's terribly expensive. I thought of trying the CaWO4 crucible, but where to get it, or how to make it? Maybe that's a great idea, what do you think;-)?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Admagistr
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 120
Registered: 4-11-2021
Location: Central Europe
Member Is Offline

Mood: The dreaming alchemist

[*] posted on 10-11-2021 at 09:06
Competition.


It occurred to me that the Supermoderators might run a competition for the prettiest photo/video of an amateur gem and the most original method. If there was a sponsor, some professional gem-maker, like Mr. Chatham, Mr. Oishi, ladies Osmer and Chase...The main prize could be Chatham emerald, Ramaura ruby, Alexandrite, bromellite, or chyrzoberyl, which contains gallium instead of aluminum;-) and crystallizes in a hexagonal system...The condition would be to publish the procedure and teach it to other enthusiasts on the forum;-)! It would be an incentive for others to publish their results and photos/videos;-). The competition could last one year....
View user's profile View All Posts By User
unionised
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 4889
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 10-11-2021 at 10:44


Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr  
Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
Nice!

. You can also write privately on my : Adm agistr gmail om


It's a bad idea to put your email address on the web.
At best, it will get spammed to hell and back.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Admagistr
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 120
Registered: 4-11-2021
Location: Central Europe
Member Is Offline

Mood: The dreaming alchemist

[*] posted on 10-11-2021 at 14:19


Quote: Originally posted by unionised  
Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr  
Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
Nice!

. You can also write privately on my : Adm agistr gmail om


It's a bad idea to put your email address on the web.
At best, it will get spammed to hell and back.


Thank you for the warning. I'm not doing it anymore. Fortunately, this email address is not my main one, it is my second address and I only use it for similar cases...I am new to the forum, should I ask the moderator to remove it if possible?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
woelen
Super Administrator
*********




Posts: 7698
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: interested

[*] posted on 11-11-2021 at 00:10


Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr  
[...] should I ask the moderator to remove it if possible?
I removed the email address. People can contact you through U2U.



The art of wondering makes life worth living...
Want to wonder? Look at https://woelen.homescience.net
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Admagistr
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 120
Registered: 4-11-2021
Location: Central Europe
Member Is Offline

Mood: The dreaming alchemist

[*] posted on 26-1-2022 at 18:26


I found this Japanese tutorial on the internet that I wanted to try. I translated it with a translator, but the added image didn't work for translate. Is there anyone here who speaks Japanese who would be willing to translate these instructions into English, please? Anyway, I gave it a try, bought 5 pencils of 9B hardness, which corresponds to natural graphite, and set the pencils on fire and let them burn. I obtained small graphite rod this way simply with point at the end. I took a glass cube for candle with a bowl in the middle and add Al2O3 mixed with 2% Cr2O3 into the depression. Then I stick into the mixture a piece of graphite rod, a few centimeters long, with the tip up, protruding about a centimeter above the mixture, placed it in the microwave and turned it on - nothing happened. Then I stick into the mixture second piece of graphite rod with the tip down near the first graphite rod, when I turned on the oven there was a blinding white glow and melting of the glass after a short time, eventually the glass exploded and the Al2O3+Cr2O3 mixture splattered all over the microwave owen. After the reaction was complete, one fused glass shard was covered with a few microscopic ruby crystals that fused into the glass. The next day I changed the experiment a bit, using a crucible from sintered corundum and stick 2 graphite rods close together in the oxide mixture, tips down. Under the corundum crucible I placed a disk of quartz glass which stood on a rotating glass plate. When I used only one of the graphite rod, again nothing happened and no plasma was produced. It just heated up the crucible a bit, with the oxide mixture. The reaction took a terrible course, dazzling plasma plumes appeared, white, purple and blue in colour, which repeatedly exploded, I thought the crucible had been shattered and nothing was left of it. When I opened the microwave owen, to my surprise, I found the cup was perfectly fine. A small amount of oxides had been scattered around the microwave, but it looked like nothing had happened and no rubies had formed. To find out what was wrong, I used a spoon to gradually remove the material from the crucible... Almost at the bottom of the crucible, something squeaked and I pulled out an opaque and irregular ruby pearl over 0.5 centimeters in size! The bottom of the crucible was blackened under the graphite tips. I will send photos later.
http://limejuice.jugem.jp/?eid=269





[Edited on 27-1-2022 by Admagistr]
View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top