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Admagistr
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Practical experience with beryllium and its compounds
Does anyone have practical experience working with metallic beryllium or its compounds? Some of the work here at the forum was done some times ago by
Plante. I'm sure that this information will be important for members who don't yet experience it because of its toxicity and don't yet have the
necessary background, or the equipment to handle the dangerous properties of this very interesting element. Among the good qualities of this element
is that it is the father of great gems such as emeralds, alexandrites and many more;-) Pictures and videos are welcome!
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Admagistr
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I found these videos, the first with a link to the German Forum: Illumina-chemie.de
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYhGJO-XFRo&t=13s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAwgpN0fk3s
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vano
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Of course it's very toxic. I'm sure If you know what you are doing and do it right it is not dangerous. I have worked with beryllium metal and it
compounds, my major source is low cancinated BeO. I also made violurate (i hope, it's strange metal).
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Admagistr
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Quote: Originally posted by vano  | | Of course it's very toxic. I'm sure If you know what you are doing and do it right it is not dangerous. I have worked with beryllium metal and it
compounds, my major source is low cancinated BeO. I also made violurate (i hope, it's strange metal). |
That's great to hear . It's a strange and miraculous metal! You made this BeO
yourself ? If so, from Be metal, or from the mineral beryl - Al2Be3Si6O18?
Regards-Adam
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vano
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| Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr | | Quote: Originally posted by vano | | Of course it's very toxic. I'm sure If you know what you are doing and do it right it is not dangerous. I have worked with beryllium metal and it
compounds, my major source is low cancinated BeO. I also made violurate (i hope, it's strange metal). |
That's great to hear. It's a strange and miraculous metal! You made this BeO
yourself? If so, from Be metal, or from the mineral beryl - Al2Be3Si6O18?
Regards-Adam |
No my BeO is very old reagent, i have three jars. In the photo, there are two jars in my hand. Before I had oxide I used metal. But now I have a lot of oxide so I use it all the time. I am going
to reduce BeO with hydrogen during the holidays, I hope I will not be lazy.
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Admagistr
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| Quote: Originally posted by vano | | Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr | | Quote: Originally posted by vano | | Of course it's very toxic. I'm sure If you know what you are doing and do it right it is not dangerous. I have worked with beryllium metal and it
compounds, my major source is low cancinated BeO. I also made violurate (i hope, it's strange metal). |
That's great to hear. It's a strange and miraculous metal! You made this BeO
yourself? If so, from Be metal, or from the mineral beryl - Al2Be3Si6O18?
Regards-Adam |
No my BeO is very old reagent, i have three jars. In the photo, there are two jars in my hand. Before I had oxide I used metal. But now I have a lot of oxide so I use it all the time. I am going
to reduce BeO with hydrogen during the holidays, I hope I will not be lazy. |
Be has a very strong bond to oxygen, are you going to reduce BeO by hydrogen, to metallic Be? How are you going to do that? Do you have a specific
plan? It seems like a superhuman task... I'd try to synthesize tiny emeralds, I'm sending an article written by Japanese expert Oishi. I transferred
it to Word, unfortunately without the photos. What do you say for it?
Attachment: Emerald.doc (67kB)
This file has been downloaded 172 times
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Admagistr
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Sorry for the raw article, I'll do some graphic editing and convert it to PDF later!
[Edited on 23-11-2021 by Admagistr]
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vano
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I will make this experiment with quartz tube and Kipp's apparatus. this is the reduction of copper oxide to metalic copper, you can reduce BeO in this way. To tell you truth i don't know what temperature it needs,
but i will find out.
I have heard about the mineral before, you can get it artificially but as far as I know the main value of gemstones is time, like a diamond made from
hydrocarbons. If you just want it for you, I like the idea. Unfortunately I have no practical experience in making gemstones. Hopefully someone
knowledgeable will show up.
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Admagistr
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| Quote: Originally posted by vano | I will make this experiment with quartz tube and Kipp's apparatus. this is the reduction of copper oxide to metalic copper, you can reduce BeO in this way. To tell you truth i don't know what temperature it needs,
but i will find out.
I have heard about the mineral before, you can get it artificially but as far as I know the main value of gemstones is time, like a diamond made from
hydrocarbons. If you just want it for you, I like the idea. Unfortunately I have no practical experience in making gemstones. Hopefully someone
knowledgeable will show up.
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You're going to need a very high temperature, the BeO is melting at 2507 C! Quartz glass won't do, I'd probably choose graphite, although it will also
form a beryllium carbide... I've got an important thing to tell you, and it's that BeO volatile around with
water vapor at 1,000 C!!!! and up and cause chronic berylliosis....
I'd like to make those emeralds for pleasure and enthusiasm someday, not for money. But I don't have the necessary laboratory background yet,
everything else would be...
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vano
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I don't need to melt oxide and similar things. It just need hot oxide and hydrogen. For example in this way you can reduce tungsten trioxide at
800-900 °C, i think Be needs less temperature.
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Admagistr
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| Quote: Originally posted by vano | | I don't need to melt oxide and similar things. It just need hot oxide and hydrogen. For example in this way you can reduce tungsten trioxide at
800-900 °C, i think Be needs less temperature. |
But the BeO is a special and difficult case...If it can be reduced with hydrogen at all, which I'm not sure...,it will be extremely difficult and will
definitely need to be melted down, the bond of Beryllium to oxygen is extremely strong! It's not the same case as WO3 and similar oxides...Could
WOELEN, or someone equally experienced, tell us what they think?! Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm not sure of success...
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Admagistr
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I'm sending the promised article in PDF. I started a new topic about it.
Attachment: Emerald.pdf (252kB)
This file has been downloaded 195 times
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vano
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I think it will be easy. My oxide is quite reactive, i can dissolve it in any acid, bacause it's cancinated at low temperature. i think I won't melt
it down, i just save powder.
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woelen
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Vano, reactivity comes in different 'flavors'. Your oxide is reactive in the sense that it can be hydrolysed easily and made to dissolve in aqueous
solutions as Be(2+) or beryllate ion, depending on pH (acidic resp. alkaline). Beryllium, on the other hand, is not reactive at all in the sense that
it can easily be reduced to the metal. I am quite sure that reduction to the metal wiull be very hard and that you need quite extreme conditions. I
myself also have some BeO, but I never even considered trying to reduce this to beryllium metal. I have read, that its redox properties (in terms of
ease or difficulty to change from the ion to the metal or vice versa) are comparable to those of aluminium. Aluminium also is not easy to obtain as
free metal from its Al(3+)-compounds.
I would be VERY careful with heating BeO to high temperatures. If it volatilizes and you breathe some of the smoke/fumes, then that can be really
detrimental to your health. I would first experiment with Al2O3 and see if you can safely convert some of that to Al-metal. In that way you can test
the engineering part of your setup and check how well contained your materials are, the robustness of your heating equipment, etc. A little accident
with red-hot Al2O3 can be nasty already, but if done in a suitable area, it is manageable. Escape of material does not need to be a big issue. If the
same happens with BeO, then the consequences can be really dire.
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Admagistr
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| Quote: Originally posted by woelen | Vano, reactivity comes in different 'flavors'. Your oxide is reactive in the sense that it can be hydrolysed easily and made to dissolve in aqueous
solutions as Be(2+) or beryllate ion, depending on pH (acidic resp. alkaline). Beryllium, on the other hand, is not reactive at all in the sense that
it can easily be reduced to the metal. I am quite sure that reduction to the metal wiull be very hard and that you need quite extreme conditions. I
myself also have some BeO, but I never even considered trying to reduce this to beryllium metal. I have read, that its redox properties (in terms of
ease or difficulty to change from the ion to the metal or vice versa) are comparable to those of aluminium. Aluminium also is not easy to obtain as
free metal from its Al(3+)-compounds.
I would be VERY careful with heating BeO to high temperatures. If it volatilizes and you breathe some of the smoke/fumes, then that can be really
detrimental to your health. I would first experiment with Al2O3 and see if you can safely convert some of that to Al-metal. In that way you can test
the engineering part of your setup and check how well contained your materials are, the robustness of your heating equipment, etc. A little accident
with red-hot Al2O3 can be nasty already, but if done in a suitable area, it is manageable. Escape of material does not need to be a big issue. If the
same happens with BeO, then the consequences can be really dire. |
Thanks Woelen!
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Admagistr
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BeO becomes more and more inert as the temperature rises!
Does anyone have an English version of the Gmelin Handbook compendium about Beryllium? I'd love to read it, but I can't get hold of it...
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vano
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i agree. I will try. Then I will tell you the answer.
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vano
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Also my beryllium reactions are stopped because I have no idea what compounds to make. If anyone has a good idea I will listen.
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Admagistr
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| Quote: Originally posted by vano | | Also my beryllium reactions are stopped because I have no idea what compounds to make. If anyone has a good idea I will listen.
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Vano, you don't have to go far, beryllium oxide is extremely interesting, of course not in the form of a powder...When it's melted and crystallized
it's a great gem with the hardness of 9 Mohs, it's as hard as ruby and sapphire and it's beautiful! In this form, it's nontoxic! If you shine a UV
light on it, it glows blue, I have it too, and I've tried it in personally. Besides, it's an extremely good conductor of heat and an excellent
insulator of electricity. It's just a matter of getting it into a compact form, preferably crystalline, and you don't have to deal with the toxicity
then and you can investigate its extraordinary properties!
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vano
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Interesting. But it's little bit hard, because it has very high melting point, i need hydrogen torch. Did you make your own crystal? BeO was useful
material in old devices, somewhere i have BeO ceramics.
[Edited on 25-11-2021 by vano]
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Admagistr
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| Quote: Originally posted by vano | Interesting. But it's little bit hard, because it has very high melting point, i need hydrogen torch. Did you make your own crystal? BeO was useful
material in old devices, somewhere i have BeO ceramics.
[Edited on 25-11-2021 by vano] |
I have a very interesting idea, I hope. Synthesis of colored, crystalline beryllium chromate. If ammonium chromate is added in an appropriate
proportion, it produces BeCrO4.2(NH4)2CrO4, this compound degrades with heat and is likely to sparking in the process, similar to pure ammonium
chromate. But mainly the thermal decomposition produces Cr2BeO4, which is very similar to alexandrite. Alexandrite Al2BeO4, doped with Cr3+ changes
colour in sunlight is emerald green and on artificial it is beautifully purple!
I haven't done Crystalline BeO yet because I don't have my own lab yet. I can send you an article on how to do it, if you're interested. Be sure not
to melt the BeO with a hydrogen flame. It'll work, but the BeO will be running around with water vapor, there will be heavy casualties, but it would
be extremely dangerous and you could even die!
I have constructed the equation: BeCrO4.2(NH4)2CrO4 = 2Cr2BeO4+8H2O+2N2.
[Edited on 25-11-2021 by Admagistr]
[Edited on 25-11-2021 by Admagistr]
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vano
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It's interesting. Months ago i tried synthesis of beryllium chromate, but it hydrolysed in Solution, the best making way is from BeO and CrO3. Yes i
want the article please.
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Admagistr
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| Quote: Originally posted by vano | | It's interesting. Months ago i tried synthesis of beryllium chromate, but it hydrolysed in Solution, the best making way is from BeO and CrO3. Yes i
want the article please. |
I've created a new theme here on the forum about forgotten synthese rubies in an electric arc furnace by the genius Henry Moissan. I'm sure it's also
applicable to beryllium oxide, only the current needed will be slightly higher. BeO and Al2O3 behave very similarly chemically. I'm also sending you
the promised article, but the first, aforementioned option is much, much simpler and doesn't require a platinum crucible.... All it takes is a
crucible of graphite, which is cheap and affordable. Don't add Cr2O3 to BeO, it wouldn't make sense, I think it could get a beautiful blue color from
CuO. It needs testing... But please be very,very careful not to inhale any furnace fumes and not contaminate the environment you live in. The solution
might be to rinse everything around with water and BeO residue, then get the BeO back by water evaporating. I'm sure you work outside...
And how did you go about synthesizing the beryllium chromate? Do you have any pictures? CrO3 and BeO in an aqueous environment will certainly work
smoothly. I once made magnesium chromate out of CrO3 and MgO in water....
Attachment: BROMELIT-BeO.pdf (2MB)
This file has been downloaded 153 times
[Edited on 26-11-2021 by Admagistr]
[Edited on 26-11-2021 by Admagistr]
[Edited on 26-11-2021 by Admagistr]
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Admagistr
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Note: The correct English filename is BROMELLITE. I couldn't correct it in the uploaded file.
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vano
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Thanks i will read.
Before I made it, I had previously read that it was hydrolyzed in water. I still tried to just mix beryllium nitrate and potassium chromate
solutions. To tell you the truth, the yellow chromate precipitate, after that I threw it away, I did not study how much it was hydrolysed. But there
also was white hydroxide
[Edited on 27-11-2021 by vano]
[Edited on 27-11-2021 by vano]
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