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Author: Subject: The formation of the natural isotope of Be9 and the possibility of preparing it in a nuclear laboratory
Admagistr
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[*] posted on 21-11-2021 at 18:31
The formation of the natural isotope of Be9 and the possibility of preparing it in a nuclear laboratory


I've spent years trying to figure out how stable isotope of beryllium originated in nature, but the information I've received from nuclear physicists has diverged...One expert says it's formed by the decay of heavier elements in the stars, the other screams it's bullshit and says that beryllium is formed by fuses, that light elements are formed by fuses...The first expert also claimed that beryllium breaks down at temperatures of a million, or a few million degrees Celsius, and the other guy got mad and told me it was bullshit! Does anyone know how it is;-)?! And I just have one more question can a stable, natural isotope of beryllium be prepared in a laboratory? Would it be from carbon, boron, or lithium and if so, please how? Thanks!


[Edited on 22-11-2021 by Admagistr]

[Edited on 22-11-2021 by Admagistr]

[Edited on 22-11-2021 by Admagistr]
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j_sum1
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[*] posted on 21-11-2021 at 21:50


If your expert thinks that light elements are a result of a decay process in stars, then not much of an expert. Stars operate by fusion not fission.

Just what kind of lab do you think you need to create and isolate isotopes?
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neptunium
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[*] posted on 22-11-2021 at 04:03


Nucleosynthesis if fairly well understood to generate very little Be. Maybe your guy was talking about nuclear spallation, which is not fission per say and happens in interstellar medium. Not in star core. Due to its short half life, Be7 can be picked up from furnace filters, as it is continuously generated (much like C14) It is sometimes used as a metric for sediment deposition and in short to medium term forensic analysis when a body is found in open air. I demonstrated that fact in a video a few years ago.
As to the second part of your question, I second J_sum1 ... "Just what kind of lab do you think you need to create and isolate isotopes?"
and why on earth would you want to generate stable wildly available cheap stable isotope ?

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Admagistr
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[*] posted on 22-11-2021 at 07:09


Quote: Originally posted by neptunium  
Nucleosynthesis if fairly well understood to generate very little Be. Maybe your guy was talking about nuclear spallation, which is not fission per say and happens in interstellar medium. Not in star core. Due to its short half life, Be7 can be picked up from furnace filters, as it is continuously generated (much like C14) It is sometimes used as a metric for sediment deposition and in short to medium term forensic analysis when a body is found in open air. I demonstrated that fact in a video a few years ago.
As to the second part of your question, I second J_sum1 ... "Just what kind of lab do you think you need to create and isolate isotopes?"
and why on earth would you want to generate stable wildly available cheap stable isotope ?



Thank you and j sum1, you're a real expert! Yes, I'm sure the man meant the nuclear spallation. I guess he meant the outer layers of some stars, or interstellar space. His name is Josip Kleczek, and there's a planetoid named after him, I think.
I meant creating beryllium from other elements, not isolating its stable isotope. I've been collecting the minerals of beryllium since childhood and admiring its gems, and when I was a teenager, I dreamed of creating stable beryllium in the lab so I could synthesize this gems. Back then, beryllium was completely inaccessible to the common "mortal"- human in our country. Today, the idea of his synthesis appeals to me out of curiosity and out of interest. I know it would be very expensive and there would be problems and I would only get a tiny amount, but it would be a childhood dream come true for me;)
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[*] posted on 22-11-2021 at 08:10


Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr  
I dreamed of creating stable beryllium in the lab so I could synthesize this gems.


I'm not quite sure how the nuclear part fits in with gem chemistry, but I can find no nuclear reaction for you to create beryllium. The smallest cluster decay is C12, and I believe even hydrogen bombs do not create Be. I wonder how much energy would be needed for spallation? Maybe Fermilab could do it? :)
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[*] posted on 22-11-2021 at 09:28


3He and 4He can fuse to produce Be7 and a gamma, when using the word "synthetize" in organic chemistry, it means something different when talking about elements and isotopes. Hence the misunderstanding... This IS a scientific oriented site .
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Admagistr
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[*] posted on 22-11-2021 at 14:18


Quote: Originally posted by neptunium  
3He and 4He can fuse to produce Be7 and a gamma, when using the word "synthetize" in organic chemistry, it means something different when talking about elements and isotopes. Hence the misunderstanding... This IS a scientific oriented site .


I'm sorry for not using the right term, English is not my native language and I didn't speak English often...I'll try to do better... What was the correct term in English I should have used for this in the language of nuclear physicists? Thank you for giving me that reaction, but I'm interested in Be9 especially...Is there an equation, please, that describes the formation of Be9 in nature and then the one that works in the nuclear physics lab as well? I don't mean nuclear spallation;)! That's certainly unrealistic in a nuclear lab:))!
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[*] posted on 22-11-2021 at 15:12


Quote: Originally posted by Metallophile  
Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr  
I dreamed of creating stable beryllium in the lab so I could synthesize this gems.


I'm not quite sure how the nuclear part fits in with gem chemistry, but I can find no nuclear reaction for you to create beryllium. The smallest cluster decay is C12, and I believe even hydrogen bombs do not create Be. I wonder how much energy would be needed for spallation? Maybe Fermilab could do it? :)


Thank you, I meant that if there was a possibility in the nuclear physics lab to create Be9 in significant quantities, then the nuclear part of the job would be done. The other, chemical part of the job would be to convert Be into BeO. BeO is a precursor to the synthesis of all kinds of gems, that contain beryllium.
Of course, I didn't mean nuclear spallation by nuclear laboratory preparation;)! It was clear to me that this was a task beyond manpower. But, as you mentioned, you haven't found any reaction that describes the formation of Be9, so it's a huge challenge to find that reaction! Maybe our member Neptunium will come up with something! What about FermiLab, will it accept the challenge;) ;)?
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[*] posted on 22-11-2021 at 17:16


This conversation seems reminiscent of something…


Let me say that the physical properties of beryls, the chemical properties of beryllium and the nuclear properties of Be isotopes are three extremely different fields which you seem to have conflated.
In this third field, nuclear properties, there is almost nothing that is accessible to an amateur. With the right (expensive) gear you can do a bit of detection. But no synthesis. No isolation. And, no, Fermilab will not be interested and nor will anyone else.
Time to do some reading rather than posting some half-baked nonsense.
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Admagistr
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[*] posted on 22-11-2021 at 18:38


Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
This conversation seems reminiscent of something…


Let me say that the physical properties of beryls, the chemical properties of beryllium and the nuclear properties of Be isotopes are three extremely different fields which you seem to have conflated.
In this third field, nuclear properties, there is almost nothing that is accessible to an amateur. With the right (expensive) gear you can do a bit of detection. But no synthesis. No isolation. And, no, Fermilab will not be interested and nor will anyone else.
Time to do some reading rather than posting some half-baked nonsense.


No, you misunderstood! I watched only one basic question the whole time!!! I'm not an expert in nuclear physics, so I wanted to ask someone who knows and is an expert on how Be9 is formed in the Universe? That's question #1.
Question number two is, can anyone in a professional nuclear physics lab make Be9 out of other chemical elements? For example, or else... Do you understand me now?!! All the other comments were merely my attempt to explain to others why I was interested in the possibility of creating beryllium when it was quite available from its ore. I didn't solve the physical properties of the mineral beryl! I didn't really mix up the different topics, maybe I just misspoke in English. Then why are you reacting negatively?! All you have to do is ask what was meant. A forum is meant to be asked and taught. Did someone else get me right, or does no one? Beryllium isotopes were mentioned because I wanted to emphasize that I'm interested in this particular isotope and that's Be9. I didn't write about other isotopes, others did...
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[*] posted on 22-11-2021 at 20:37


All your answers are only a wiki away.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_of_beryllium

My point is that you are attempting to ask (and expect answers) in fields that are extremely complex and extremely niche without doing some basic research yourself. At the same time, in other threads, you are asking about beryl and its synthetic production – again, seemingly with wild and unrealistic expectations about what is possible. It does seem like you are confusing disparate areas of study.

Forgive my skepticism, but in my experience those with genuine questions usually have a firmer grasp of the concepts they are asking about.
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