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Author: Subject: LL8 from Dr. Liptakov
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[*] posted on 9-4-2022 at 15:11


Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  
Here is method how obtain pretty pure TACP from impurite NaClO4. And then is possible do it decompose on pretty pure NH4ClO4 + CuO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUec6kHHxeM&t=3s
Thus TACP preparation in video works a like purification process 2 in 1.
You obtain directly pretty pure TACP. If you need pure NH4ClO4, (for preparation CHP) you can TACP decompose in boiling water on NH4ClO4 + fine powder (black) insoluble CuO. After evaporate water (separe CuO) you obtain pure ammonium perchlorate.


Quote:
Most of the chlorate is converted. You can remove the remained with a recrystallisation using acetone.


I downloaded both those videos. I guess I am all set (mostly). I just need to watch and study them thoroughly. I ordered some CuO from aliexpress to make sure I have enough for CHP and LL8. I know I could have made some, but I wasn't in the mood. Might do the same for 28% ammonium hydroxide, but I will make some in the future at home at a later date.

One question about the crucible with sodium chlorate. Is it possible to do it directly on the stove top? I don't have a heat gun (though I don't mind getting one) and the setup that you use with the cinder block is a bit cumbersome for me to use. Is a stove top enough? If I need to use a heat gun, would a different kind of support work while putting the heat gun on the ground? Does this produce dangerous gasses and need to be done outside or can I do it indoors?

I am looking at your video for ammonium perchlorate from TACP. I did see that you made the TACP using ammonium nitrate. Would HNO3 work instead? I don't have access to ammonium nitrate straight off, so I will need to make some for this experiment. Something I was planning on doing anyway.
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[*] posted on 10-4-2022 at 00:27


You can use any setting for heating ceramic cup. Stove top, PB - flame, electric snare. Question is, whats happen when cup crack.
Heating can run indoor, is without smell, arises oxygen without chlorine.
Prepare NH4NO3 from HNO3 + ammonia water is slightly luxury, but yes.




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[*] posted on 10-4-2022 at 00:50


Quote:
You can use any setting for heating ceramic cup. Stove top, PB - flame, electric snare. Question is, whats happen when cup crack.
Heating can run indoor, is without smell, arises oxygen without chlorine.


By cup, I assume you mean the crucible? I'll have to monitor it as closely as possible and be ready with the crucible tongs to remove it. I bought a ceramic crucible a while ago.

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B06XKHZKWQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_...

This is the product that I have. I think they might have sent me the wrong size since it seems too small for 500ml. I might need to order another one off aliexpress since now that I look at it, I don't think it is good enough for perchlorate fabrication. I originally got it to make nitrite, which doesn't need as much heat as perchlorate synthesis.

Or am I wrong? What kind of crucible did you use? Is it of similar material?

Quote:

Prepare NH4NO3 from HNO3 + ammonia water is slightly luxury, but yes.


I have seen that done with the common 6% household solution (There is a brand in my area that is 6% ammonia and nothing else. Just ammonia and water. No other additive. I also have had someone else on this forum suggest that I can make ammonium nitrate directly from potassium nitrate and anhydrous magnesium sulfate. I bought some magnesium sulfate but I haven't dried it in my oven yet. I think I'll do that and make it that way, which seems much more economical than getting it from HNO3 which is, as you put it, a slight luxury.

I mean getting 70ml or so of 70% HNO3 requires quite a bit of KNO3. I don't want to waste my precious nitrates! I have spent a lot of time and money to replenish my supply. I will even make more when I order more potassium chloride, since for some reason most stores in my area no longer stock salt substitute, meaning I need to get it from a chemical supplier.

Edit: Actually I think might not need to do any of that. I think there is a brand of cold pack that I can get online that has ammonium nitrate there. Not calcium ammonium nitrate, but just straight up ammonium nitrate (with a nitrogen content less than 28%) is that sufficient for CHP/LL8/Ammonium perchlorate synthesis?

[Edited on 10-4-2022 by ManyInterests]
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[*] posted on 10-4-2022 at 12:12


Yes, pure Ammonium nitrate from cold pack should by works for any reactions. My ceramic cup is old quality material. Cup from link is for high temerature melting gold, silver. It will works. 88 x 36 is good size. My cup is smaller 40x 50 mm.



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[*] posted on 11-4-2022 at 07:20


Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  
Yes, pure Ammonium nitrate from cold pack should by works for any reactions. My ceramic cup is old quality material. Cup from link is for high temerature melting gold, silver. It will works. 88 x 36 is good size. My cup is smaller 40x 50 mm.


That's perfect. The crucible I have was also advertised for gold/silver melting. I am thinking of getting an actual cup (the one I have is shaped as a bowl) and made of graphite. That one is also rated for gold and silver, so I think it would work (it also comes with a lid. Meaning much better heat retention and no need for a foil cover).

I hope that the cold packs are just ammonium nitrate and not calcium ammonium nitrate, otherwise I will need to fiddle around a little to get the ammonium nitrate. I don't know the exact nitrogen content, so I hope it is not only good for CHP/LL8 but also for using to make nitric acid. Because you can never have enough nitric acid!

And since I'm posting, can I redirect your attention slightly towards the thread Det Cap Strategies? I had some questions to ask regarding plasticizing and binding. Since PiB is one of the best binders, I wondered if it is possible to extract the PiB from chewing gum in the same way you extracted it with tape. As in, using gasoline (even lighter fluid works as you said) to get it out. Chewing gum is much more available than SCAPA 2501.
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[*] posted on 11-4-2022 at 09:16


I'd use the ceramic crucibles that come with a small lid for that kind of procedures.
I often use them either to incinerate filter papers (I have one dedicated for filters from silver and PGM recovery) or for when heating in the open air would be detrimental.

They're cheap and I never had one cracking on me with a butane torch. They easily glow white. A pair of pliers or an unfolded paper clip are enough to remove the lid and have a peek inside.
If it serves, I always underestimated the volume I needed with those things.





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[*] posted on 11-4-2022 at 13:11


Chewing gum require experiments. Dissolving in gasoline, filtration solid parts and similarly. Not tested. Important : Graphite is carbon. Can easy react with any oxidizer. Especially with super hot oxidizer 400 C or about.



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[*] posted on 12-4-2022 at 08:17


Quote:

I'd use the ceramic crucibles that come with a small lid for that kind of procedures.
I often use them either to incinerate filter papers (I have one dedicated for filters from silver and PGM recovery) or for when heating in the open air would be detrimental.

They're cheap and I never had one cracking on me with a butane torch. They easily glow white. A pair of pliers or an unfolded paper clip are enough to remove the lid and have a peek inside.
If it serves, I always underestimated the volume I needed with those things.


Quote:
Chewing gum require experiments. Dissolving in gasoline, filtration solid parts and similarly. Not tested. Important : Graphite is carbon. Can easy react with any oxidizer. Especially with super hot oxidizer 400 C or about.


Duly noted about the crucible. I will get another ceramic one and make sure it comes with a lid. You did mention in a previous thread that any petroleum distillate will work. I also heard that regular gasoline from the pump won't work. Also it feels off to go to a gas station and ask for a small bottle of gasoline. So I will get a small bottle of Zippo lighter fluid (that is white petrol).
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[*] posted on 15-4-2022 at 20:18


Maybe I should start a thread with my finding later, but I might as well write it here.

I've begun experimenting with extracting rubber from bubble gum. Since as you know I did hear that most bubble gum uses a food safe PiB. Right now I've frozen around 154 grams of bubble gum and then washed them to get rid of the flavorings and other stuff. After rising it i ended up with around 47.5 grams of gum from the 154 (wow, that much sweeteners and stuff). The smell of the gum was very faint and it looked like well-chewed gum. I put the gum in a jar and added 200 grams of charcoal lighter fluid (it is also a petroleum distillate. I wanted to use zippo lighter fluid but I didn't find any). I swirled it around but the gum still likes to stick to the bottom.

The liquid then turned milky white. Maybe there is still something in the gum?

At any rate, Liptakov has kept his tape in the gasoline for 2 days. I will swirl it from time to time but also keep it for a day or three before seeing if anything seems to separate.

The brand of gum is excel extra white. Sugar free.
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[*] posted on 16-4-2022 at 06:02


I'd have gone for tablets such as Wrigley's Big Red, Hollywood etc. rather than dragee for reasons that seemed obvious to me.
Oh well...




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[*] posted on 16-4-2022 at 22:25


Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber  
I'd have gone for tablets such as Wrigley's Big Red, Hollywood etc. rather than dragee for reasons that seemed obvious to me.
Oh well...


Another experiment for another time. :) Bubble gum is cheap. Zippo lighter fluid is also very cheap.

So far the gum appears to be completely dissolved and is settled at the bottom. The top layer of the liquid is mildly discolored, but is very liquidy.... I think I will need to filter out everything tomorrow. I attached a photograph of it so far.

I am also trying to find some cheaper self-adhesive tape. I would order Scapa 2501, but the price tag is quite high for me. I am seeing stuff on aliexpress like butyl rubber tape. Also some other sealing material that is all made of rubber. Sounds like I might need to shell out more cash and experiment!





Liquid.jpg - 1.5MB
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[*] posted on 17-4-2022 at 03:25


It looks like I'm going to open an online store with concentrated PIB solutions ...:D And special plastificators.



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[*] posted on 17-4-2022 at 08:08


That would make things much, much easier! :D All guides and people say 'I used PiB' but they never say how to get it or correctly extracted.

Your plasticizer basic video is literally the only one that I have seen that does that!
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[*] posted on 17-4-2022 at 22:33


For example, this tape ( is much cheaper ) looks like a good PIB source, but it is not. During dissolution, it dissolves in its entirety, including the black carrier. So far, the only tape in the world that provides clean and quality PIB is SCAPA 2501.

PIB tape.JPG - 140kB




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[*] posted on 17-4-2022 at 23:50


Well I will be trying. So far I need to buy a pan to test the liquid I got to see if it has PIB. Because now I still have the gum in the large amount of petrol.

I ordered this BTW: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002488805666.html?spm=a2...

In the end of the day I might end up getting SCAPA 2501... but that will be a while from now. The 50$ price tag is really pricey and I want to try with other things.

There HAS to be another way. Lots of energetics guys get PIB and not all from scapa.

There is also the rubber cement method. That one works, but I want to try to make PIB first since it is better than rubber cement.
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[*] posted on 18-4-2022 at 06:09


For this effort you could probably synth an energetic binder with far better performance.
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[*] posted on 18-4-2022 at 08:37


Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
For this effort you could probably synth an energetic binder with far better performance.


I'm listening. Please tell me how it is done, because I can't find any information on it.
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[*] posted on 18-4-2022 at 11:58


Scapa 2501 show on my browser 8.75 USD... 10 meters / 38 mm
It is a huge amount of tape. Very good price.
https://www.tme.eu/en/details/scapa-2501-38/self-amalgamatin...




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[*] posted on 18-4-2022 at 22:26


I was not aware of that site. The only site I checked for Scapa 2501 was ebay, which did sell for 50$ USD. That site you showed is much, much cheaper. I think I'll order a roll from there some time. :)

Edit: https://amzn.to/3jQed1J

I forgot to mention this. Lip gloss base appears to have all sorts of nice plasticizers in it. The ingredient list shows PIB as well as other stuff you used in styrofan (like styrene?)

[Edited on 19-4-2022 by ManyInterests]
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[*] posted on 20-4-2022 at 17:20


So a bit of notes on my bubble gum PIB extraction... I think there is definitely PIB in the bubble gum. But I believe I may have made a mistake in dissolving them. As in, I used too much lighter fluid. So when I put the fuel in the pan and evaporated the fuel (I need to check the flash point of that stuff, because while I did see white fumes, I was afraid it'll ignite and start a fire. Thankfully nothing of the sort happened).

I might have dried the stuff too much. Because while all the fuel did evaporate, what was left was a very, VERY sticky layer of glue-like substance. I've seen your video on the plasticizer and it much stickier than the stuff you handled.

I will need to try again.

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[*] posted on 21-4-2022 at 03:10


The stickiness is dependent on several factors, such as degree of polymerisation (of the PIB)and the nature and amount of plasticizer. The polymer and plasticizer may have different solubilities in your chosen solvent, and that could easily alter the polymer/plasticizer ratio in you extract. This would then change the properties of the remanence.

[Edited on 21-4-2022 by Microtek]

[Edited on 21-4-2022 by Microtek]
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[*] posted on 21-4-2022 at 20:52


Yeah. I will need to experiment more with it. But I'm not finding the time for it.

I did do one experiment with the rubber cement and bar and chain oil. I used around 5 grams of victor brand rubber cement and perhaps around 0.5 grams of all-season bar and chain oil (give or take 0.1 grams). I used Darian Ballard's method. I used 9.1 grams of cake flour as a test.

I could not fully dry them because the 2nd hand hair dryer I bought for this purpose broke after a bit of use (It was really cheap so I don't care. I'm sure I can pick up another 2nd hand one soon). So I just tried to mix and work with them until they did form a putty. It has the consistency of playdough (thought I can't really tell. I haven't played with playdough since I was a child) or a very soft eraser. I think I will to put in a little more rubber cement next time. I had a hard time measuring because my mixing bowl was too heavy for my scale. so there was some inaccuracies.

But overall it is a fine first attempt when using rubber cement based plasticizer. I hope my next attempts will be better. Scapa 2501 amalgamates a little better I heard (from people who used both rubber cement and Scapa 2501) but overall the rubber cement should be sufficient for my purposes.

I will still do something with the chewing gum, because why not? also spirit of experimentation and all that.

also I might try to work with makeup grade latex to see if I can make a rubberized substance. Lots of people make plastic explosives here, but I don't see that many showing off sheet explosives.

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[*] posted on 22-4-2022 at 07:11


Most from researchers here focus on the most difficult and crucial task. So to create a reliable detonator, the production of which is maximally safe, simple and so on. The production of plastic explosives (eg 100g) is much more expensive than the research of new detonators, which usually contain 1g HE. Testing of new plastic HEs is also problematic due to noise.



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[*] posted on 22-4-2022 at 13:43


Quote: Originally posted by ManyInterests  
Yeah. I will need to experiment more with it. But I'm not finding the time for it.

I did do one experiment with the rubber cement and bar and chain oil. I used around 5 grams of victor brand rubber cement and perhaps around 0.5 grams of all-season bar and chain oil (give or take 0.1 grams). I used Darian Ballard's method. I used 9.1 grams of cake flour as a test.

I could not fully dry them because the 2nd hand hair dryer I bought for this purpose broke after a bit of use (It was really cheap so I don't care. I'm sure I can pick up another 2nd hand one soon). So I just tried to mix and work with them until they did form a putty. It has the consistency of playdough (thought I can't really tell. I haven't played with playdough since I was a child) or a very soft eraser. I think I will to put in a little more rubber cement next time. I had a hard time measuring because my mixing bowl was too heavy for my scale. so there was some inaccuracies.

But overall it is a fine first attempt when using rubber cement based plasticizer. I hope my next attempts will be better. Scapa 2501 amalgamates a little better I heard (from people who used both rubber cement and Scapa 2501) but overall the rubber cement should be sufficient for my purposes.

I will still do something with the chewing gum, because why not? also spirit of experimentation and all that.

also I might try to work with makeup grade latex to see if I can make a rubberized substance. Lots of people make plastic explosives here, but I don't see that many showing off sheet explosives.



LL is right. Generally it’s not interesting unless the binder is energetic. The procedures are well known. It’s just a matter of finding the right tape.
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[*] posted on 22-4-2022 at 15:47


You guys are right. I should keep any posting in this thread on the primaries being made here (which I do plan on making. I'm going to break out my chemistry kit for a bit of boring reagent making). If it's all about dissolving the tape in gasoline and extracting the stuff then... yeah. I guess it's already done.

But MineMan, I would like to speak to you about those energetic binders. I did look into them slightly, do you have any resources that could guide me further? Some of the stuff I did read did seem to point to a gelignite type explosive.
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