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Author: Subject: legality of c. paspali?
overunity33
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[*] posted on 21-3-2011 at 21:03
legality of c. paspali?


there is a member on the shroomery offering this fungus for sale. While it is a very interesting fungus and apparently legal to buy it is still pretty expensive. The seller claims that it doesn't produce any illegal compounds unless a trace metal is present so it can't be considered to contain the compounds. Also they say this specific strain (#13892) does not infect plants so it can't be considered a plant pathogen. Is this 100% legal to buy for research purposes? Even though its from the US I don't want to pay and then have some problems with USPS because of shipping a live fungus, then again a lot of those guys on that site send each other even more questionable species. Is this one of those cases where you can't be prosecuted unless you show intent to commit a crime? Seems like it to me, at least in the US from what I have read in the past
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pip
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[*] posted on 22-3-2011 at 07:41


why would you want it? even strains known to produce lots of ergot alkaloids loose their ability to produce such chemicals and "go stale" after a short time so your just left with a potential source of gang green. unless you like gang green or uv irradiating large vats of liquid culture just to keep potency you should stay away. oh and not to be rude but if lsd is your goal the fact you asked about legality screams you can't pull it off.

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ScienceSquirrel
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[*] posted on 22-3-2011 at 09:31


You would be a lot better off growing a Psilocybe species as it is comparatively easy.
I would start with an edible mushroom that likes similar conditions so you can practice the agar and bulk media cultivation techniques.
There will be a lot of work involved even achieving this on a reliable basis.
Growing C. paspali is going to be a lot of more work when you couple in the extraction of the alkaloids and processing to produce lysergic acid.

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[*] posted on 23-3-2011 at 09:11


What legitimate research purposes do you have? Without any, it'd be trivial for a prosecutor to convince a jury that you intended to use it for less than legal purposes.

The DEA sets up sting sites all the time, and has even harassed members here before, fishing for those foolish enough to buy scheduled precursors. If it's a sting and you fall for it, you can be sure they wouldn't tackle you the second you signed for the delivery. They'd wait. And wait. And wait... until they had overwhelming evidence of manufacture, sale, distribution, etc. They'd want to throw your life away forever, and they're very patient. Years of surveillance are not unheard of.

Buyer beware.




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[*] posted on 23-3-2011 at 09:32


Can't you just get another fungus and get all the joys(?) of growing/culturing it and maintaining it, without the potentiality of years of incarceration? I don't see what's so interesting about the stuff--can't you pick something more tame and with less stigma.


I'd rather sleep at night [mostly] carefree.


This is the 21st century, and madscientist is entirely right. They will wait until it's a slam dunk. I'm rather glad they do that actually, because hopefully that means they get the right people.




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Magic Muzzlet
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[*] posted on 23-3-2011 at 09:54


The joy, and point of culturing the fungus would be for producing LSD, that is what is so interesting...
But really, paspali is not a very good way to go about it. You would be better off extracting certain types of seeds, and you would be even better off not trying to make LSD at all.
In the time it would take you to culture, extract, and do everything else you could have made many other compounds that are better than LSD itself and that are legal. Plus as has been said you will probably get fucked for attempting what it is you seem to be wanting to do. ;)

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[*] posted on 23-3-2011 at 10:24


Fucked hard I might add. By the long, vieny, uncut falice of justice.:o

Bio-actives are not easily done in the kitchen or amateur lab. The whole idea is a little scary to me. Though, you probably have just as much to worry about when searching for a synthetic high on the black market. I doubt that shit is cooked in a DuPont lab. I much preferred a joint and a six pack in my hay-day.



[Edited on 23-3-2011 by Bot0nist]
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smuv
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[*] posted on 23-3-2011 at 10:34


Quote: Originally posted by Magic Muzzlet  

But really, paspali is not a very good way to go about it. You would be better off extracting certain types of seeds, and you would be even better off not trying to make LSD at all.


While I agree with the last part of that statement (not making lsd at all), I disagree with the statement about extracting seeds. The concentration of ergot alkaloids in seeds is extremely small; the kewls trying to pursue this route are IMO chasing a ghost (which is great...because at least the won't be poisoning people with their 'potions').
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[*] posted on 23-3-2011 at 10:56


I thought he may be talking about LSA and related. I believe certain seeds (HBW) can have relatively high concentrations. LSA is not LSD though.
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Magic Muzzlet
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[*] posted on 23-3-2011 at 11:14


Well, the main point was so much time will be wasted getting nowhere with the seeds, that it would keep the person in question out of trouble.
Someone with a true ability to produce LSD does not need to ask about it all on the net, this has been said numerous times before.
Its going to be so hard to get precursors without some really good connections, and if you have them you are probably going to be in alot of trouble soon anyway.
Its just not worth it in my opinion, whatever way I look at it.
But, you cant keep someone from trying, or dreaming.
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[*] posted on 23-3-2011 at 11:35


Quote: Originally posted by Magic Muzzlet  
Well, the main point was so much time will be wasted getting nowhere with the seeds, that it would keep the person in question out of trouble.
Someone with a true ability to produce LSD does not need to ask about it all on the net, this has been said numerous times before.
Its going to be so hard to get precursors without some really good connections, and if you have them you are probably going to be in a lot of trouble soon anyway.
Its just not worth it in my opinion, whatever way I look at it.
But, you cant keep someone from trying, or dreaming.


I am in complete agreement. There is a reason why there is a lot less LSD floating around now (I assume?), and the reason is that the materials and precursors are tightly controlled and strictly watched.
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smuv
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[*] posted on 23-3-2011 at 11:42


True. Though looking at the structures of these compounds...don't you think it is a little overstated how difficult this synthesis is. I mean come on, all you are doing is hydrolizing an amide and sticking a different one on...surely even a bad synthetic chemist who can run a column should be able to pull that off!
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[*] posted on 23-3-2011 at 11:48


I think the reagent acquisition would be more trying than the actual synthesis. I bet many round-about ways would be needed for precursors, unless you have really good connections, as Magic Muzzle pointed out.
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[*] posted on 23-3-2011 at 12:00


Now the REAL challenge would be to synthesise this from say two carbon molecules.
Trouble is though that IF you succeded then the barons would want to eliminate the threat to their profits (you) and the law would want to stop you actually making anything.
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[*] posted on 23-3-2011 at 12:01


Even then, aside from the the actual ergoline starting material, what do you really need that is hard to make? Diethylamine and phosphoryl/thionyl chloride?

Diethylamine should be a sinch to make, in these quantities you could almost just make it from ammonia and ethyl bromide and just separate from the other amines.

A few mL of phosphoryl chloride should be no problem from a few g's of red phosphorous recovered from matchbooks (there is probably even a prep on this site somewhere).
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Magic Muzzlet
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[*] posted on 23-3-2011 at 12:09


Well thats the thing, the only hard part is getting the precursor. I mean THE precursor, or any number of the few that can be turned into lysergic acid. It really isnt easy. The other stuff is no problem.
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[*] posted on 23-3-2011 at 12:13


lol, I feel like we have come full circle now.
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Magic Muzzlet
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[*] posted on 23-3-2011 at 12:16


Where else can it go?
All this LSD related stuff has been beaten down on the net.
I'd like to see no more on it unless someone succeeds really.
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[*] posted on 23-3-2011 at 12:24


heh, sorry :). I guess, I didn't realize it had been discussed so much; it is rarely brought up here.

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[*] posted on 24-3-2011 at 08:51


All this talk about LSD made me look up the synthesis

"A totally pure salt, when dry and when shaken in the dark, will emit small flashes of white light." HOLY CRAP, how many people get to experience something like that.

What is the purpose of the phosphoryl chloride? I thought it couldn't form acid chlorides. Or does it create the amide in a different way?




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[*] posted on 24-3-2011 at 10:17


Yeah go and buy c. paspali from a shroomery forum, you'll not be the first one to get busted by the DEA because of buying that fungus.
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[*] posted on 24-3-2011 at 14:53


lots of speculation up in this thread.
naysayers could never pull it off, because they've already managed to convince themselves what they think can't be done.


[Edited on 24-3-2011 by piracetam]
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[*] posted on 25-3-2011 at 05:17


Quote: Originally posted by mr.crow  
All this talk about LSD made me look up the synthesis

"A totally pure salt, when dry and when shaken in the dark, will emit small flashes of white light." HOLY CRAP, how many people get to experience something like that.

What is the purpose of the phosphoryl chloride? I thought it couldn't form acid chlorides. Or does it create the amide in a different way?


I think it probably goes via a mixed anhydride.

Triboluminescence is a well known phenomenon and you do not need LSD to observe it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triboluminescence

[Edited on 25-3-2011 by ScienceSquirrel]
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[*] posted on 25-3-2011 at 20:24


How did a bunch of intelligent people turn a legal question into a conversation on lsd synthesis in record time? You guys are the first to tear apart a newbie when he does the same thing....
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[*] posted on 27-3-2011 at 02:46


na ergots not illegal importing live fungi might be another thing though.


[Edited on 27-3-2011 by Ephoton]




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