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Author: Subject: Strange synthesis of UN?
Rakunin
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[*] posted on 14-4-2022 at 08:58
Strange synthesis of UN?


Are some familiar with this synthesis method of the UN like this, I find it strange:

Urea (pellets) + 68% HNO3 = UN

HNO3 is gradually added to Urea (pellets) directly with stirring until all HNO3 is added, then "drying" in open air. The temperature control is around 30 degrees C.

Has anyone heard of this method before?
The product becomes a kind of sticky mass, which is extremely acidic.

I was shown this method and find it strange compared to the more classic method where you dissolve Urea in water and then add HNO3 while stirring in an ice bath etc.
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greenlight
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[*] posted on 14-4-2022 at 09:03


I am aware of this method as I did the exact thing you describe with hardware store urea and 62% nitric acid when I was a teenager.

Yes, it was a sticky acidic mess.
Yes it was near impossible to filter and I believe I had multiple coffee filters pegged to a clothes drying rack.

I remember the more I stirred the more the urea lost its pellet form until it was like white porridge.

The end product did store okay and did detonate as well.


[Edited on 14-4-2022 by greenlight]




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Rakunin
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[*] posted on 14-4-2022 at 10:03


And what are your thoughts on this method?
Do you find it worse, better or just some teenage mess?
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katyushaslab
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[*] posted on 14-4-2022 at 10:43


Seems like a waste of perfectly good strong nitric acid, when you can just use HCl and whatever the cheapest nitrate salt you can buy is.
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MineMan
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[*] posted on 14-4-2022 at 11:54


UN is a universally poor molecule. Can someone enlighten me on why it’s even worth discussing?
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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[*] posted on 14-4-2022 at 13:49


Urea nitrate is an obsolete energy material. Everything important is on wikipedia. This thread is a waste of virtual space and time users.



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katyushaslab
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[*] posted on 14-4-2022 at 22:25


UN alone isn't particularly interesting, however it is a useful precursor to other materials.

There is a rather interesting thread from greenlight on here somewhere that has a mechanism from going from urea nitrate to HMX via two intermediary steps (nitrourea and DPT).

This thread: https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=15...

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woelen
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[*] posted on 15-4-2022 at 00:06


"UN is a universally poor molecule. Can someone enlighten me on why it’s even worth discussing?"
Whether a molecule is poor or not depends on its intended use. Every molecule may be worth discussing, maybe even just from a scientific/academic point of view. E.g. copper sulfate is a very poor choice for use as an explosive, but makes this the compound a "poor compound, not worth discussing in general"?

"Urea nitrate is an obsolete energy material. Everything important is on wikipedia. This thread is a waste of virtual space and time users."
Similar reaction, see above.

I have made several weird compounds, which have no practical use at all, but which i find very interesting, just because of their chemistry (e.g. formamidine disulfide dinitrate from thiourea, any oxidizer and a dilute nitrate solution, which self-ignites after hours of storage). No practical use, but very interesting demo of crystallization and auto-ignition.




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katyushaslab
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[*] posted on 15-4-2022 at 00:38


> (e.g. formamidine disulfide dinitrate from thiourea, any oxidizer and a dilute nitrate solution, which self-ignites after hours of storage). No practical use, but very interesting demo of crystallization and auto-ignition.

While it is off topic for this thread, that sounds very interesting by itself. I wonder does humidity/ambient temperature have an impact on how long it takes to auto ignite? Why does it auto ignite? What on earth is going on there?
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