Admagistr
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Ball lightning and cavitation?
Watching these videos, it occurred to me that perhaps ball lightning could be explained by cavitation and sonoluminescence. The cumulonimbus is
certainly the source of various sounds of different frequencies,starting with the classic thunder.There is plenty of water in it,in all states.It also
produces dilute HNO3,create nuclear reactions and produces X-rays and neutrons.It even produces antimatter.The cumulonimbus is a natural particle
accelerator.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puVxGnl_3y8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TVZd8dZysY
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j_sum1
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Nuclear reactions? Neutrons? Are you sure?
I would love to see a citation.
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Texium
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Thread Moved
14-2-2023 at 17:08 |
Admagistr
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Yes,I am sure,10 years ago I told my teacher,now a friend,who headed the Department of Theoretical Physics and Astrophysics at the Silesian University
in Opava.He was in the Czech skeptics' association Sisyfos,in which the well-known Czech astrophysicist and astronomy popularizer Jiri Grygar was
active.He did not believe me,so I presented him with the scientific articles,he apologized me and said it was amazing...He copied the articles for his
colleagues.
Here is one link,it is not the article I showed him,because 10 years have passed. I searched for the current one:
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1029/2020...
[Edited on 15-2-2023 by Admagistr]
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Sulaiman
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A near-relevant true story
About 30 years ago, my brother in law lived in a terraced house in a large flat housing estate,
his father in law was visiting,
after a heavy meal all felt tired so rested before after oon prayers.
My wife and I were called to urgently help after a lightning strike,
I assumed just the usual tripping of circuit breakers etc.
(I later determined that) a bolt of lightning hit the old TV antenna, traveled down the co-ax (completely vaporising the copper) and jumped over to
the house electrical wiring.
Many electrical items were dead,
we were told of lights on the wall exploding etc.
What must have been a significant part of the lightning traveled down the metal handrail of the staircase, then it lept to the marble tiled floor,
leaving 5 or 6 small 'explosion craters' as evidence.
Apparently this caused a ball of fire to appear to my relative, (napping on a settee in the living room) who was woken by the sound.
He described the bright ball slowly floating through the room and out of the open doors.
Reportedly he jumped to his feet, washed and prayed as he saw this as a sign
- delaying prayers.
He's a more religious man than me, he should be,
at the time he was the mufti of wilayah (chief cleric of the federal capital) 
I heard that he was very punctual with prayers until he passed away.
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
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Admagistr
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I also have personal experience with ball lightning.That's why I'm still interested in it today...It happened about 42 years ago. I was about 5 years
old at the time. There was a heavy thunderstorm and my brother, who was less than two years younger, was angry to my mother.He was on the
balcony,holding on tight to the metal railing and kept calling out,lightning,come here! My mother couldn't take him home,he always got away from her
and ran back to the balcony and grabbed the railing. I came to him,like an older brother,and told him:You have to know how to do it,I'll show you how
to do it! I had great confidence that it would work,I didn't doubt it at all and I called: Lightning,come here! At that moment, lightning struck the
sports field about 400 meters away. There were large poplar trees planted on the field. The lightning struck one of them, and immediately afterwards
an orange glow flooded our balcony. Almost simultaneously, a bright blue ball appeared in front of us, just a few tens of centimeters from our heads.
It looked like someone was welding with an electric arc. We got very scared and I thought we would run to hide in the chamber, my brother was very
crying. So we ran there and I stopped for a moment and turned around and the bright blue ball, maybe 20 centimeters in diameter, was a few meters
behind us. So we ran as fast as we could, there was a curtain of yellow cloth in the chamber and we hid behind it, hoping that the lightning would not
find us... We waited there for a long time and then we decided to see if the lightning was still there...Well, fortunately it wasn't. I remember to
this day the terrible fear when we were behind that yellow cloth curtain, we didn't even speak and hardly breathed. When the lightning disappeared, it
was a great relief...My mother told us about it for a long time afterwards and she remembers it to this day. A neighbour-woman shouted at her after
the storm what had happened at the "Sokol" sports ground and on your balcony!!!
[Edited on 15-2-2023 by Admagistr]
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Admagistr
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Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman  | About 30 years ago, my brother in law lived in a terraced house in a large flat housing estate,
his father in law was visiting,
after a heavy meal all felt tired so rested before after oon prayers.
My wife and I were called to urgently help after a lightning strike,
I assumed just the usual tripping of circuit breakers etc.
(I later determined that) a bolt of lightning hit the old TV antenna, traveled down the co-ax (completely vaporising the copper) and jumped over to
the house electrical wiring.
Many electrical items were dead,
we were told of lights on the wall exploding etc.
What must have been a significant part of the lightning traveled down the metal handrail of the staircase, then it lept to the marble tiled floor,
leaving 5 or 6 small 'explosion craters' as evidence.
Apparently this caused a ball of fire to appear to my relative, (napping on a settee in the living room) who was woken by the sound.
He described the bright ball slowly floating through the room and out of the open doors.
Reportedly he jumped to his feet, washed and prayed as he saw this as a sign
- delaying prayers.
He's a more religious man than me, he should be,
at the time he was the mufti of wilayah (chief cleric of the federal capital)
I heard that he was very punctual with prayers until he passed away. |
Very interesting experience and I learned something new about the Islamic religious system I graduated successfully in Catholic Theology at the Master level.
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Sulaiman
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My daughter in law has a masters in Theology from Edinburgh (UK) and is 'woke'
- some interesting conversations.
Anyway, wrong forum.... Back to mad science...
( No references.. Google probably helps)
Some years ago the UK govt. released some 'Unidentified Aerial Phenomena' documents.
Like many others I downloaded and read many of them.
Ball lightning is apparently common along fault lines and ley lines.
The odd part was that the ley line map was completely redacted (lots of marker pen ink)
Why would uk mod redact a map of ley lines?
I believe that ionised msterial is a common pre-requisite for ball lightning :
Wooden poles, anything organic, rocks ( including carboniferous marble I supposed)
I've read anecdotal reports of ball lightning floating through glass windows without damaging the glass! ?
So ball lightning is still unexplained. ?
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
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Σldritch
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I too had the luck to witness natural ball lightning some time ago. I sat in front of my computer during a lightning storm and heard a wierd sound to
the right of me. At first I ignored it but then I heard something again and turned my head and just caught it exploding mid-air two meters or so in
front of me, about two meters over the floor, or 30cm from the ceiling having seemingly originated from the power outlet and traveled out and upwards.
The flash was pale blue, yellow toward the center, about as big as an apple. It was very loud, with a clear bang. Having my Geiger counter nearby I
could seemingly measure somewhat elevated radiation levels 20 seconds or so afterwards.
Less crucially I went outside to retell what I had just witnessed and saw a fire truck pass by. A few weeks later it reached me a that another house
in the community burned down. I guess not a single ball of lightning was produced at that moment. To my knowledge a nearby pump and the fiber modem in
the room with me were destroyed aswell.
Anyway I consider ball lightning an explained phenomenon related to cavitation, high energy impacts, HV electrolysis, exploding metal wires and such.
My favored explanation can be found here.
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Herr Haber
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I have never witnessed the phenomena but I've seen people who claim to have witnessed it.
Because of my interest in science some people come to me as if I were some kind of authority on the matter (very kind of them but very far from the
truth).
What I can say with 100% certainty is that those who say they saw ball lightning were most definitely convinced of what they saw. Most of them were
looking for confirmation that they were not crazy.
I guess I would too.
@Sulaiman: but what about the ball floating mid air. Plasma is ionized gas so wouldnt that count as material ?
The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
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Sulaiman
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I guess no,
because if yes then
I'd expect ball lightning to be very common.
I've not seen it myself, but most reports include an initiation point (marble tile, electrical outlet etc)
I think it would be safe to assume that ball lightning is more likely when solids (especially carbon containing) are vaporised/incinerated/ionised
than when only atmospheric air is available.
OR maybe it is very common,
but made more visible when containing incandescent carbon etc.?
On the nuclear lightning stuff ;
with millions of volts and thousands of amps there must be many transient extreme conditions,
and the authors of the paper above agree with me, and provide data
[Edited on 15-2-2023 by Sulaiman]
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Admagistr
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| Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman | I guess no,
because if yes then
I'd expect ball lightning to be very common.
I've not seen it myself, but most reports include an initiation point (marble tile, electrical outlet etc)
I think it would be safe to assume that ball lightning is more likely when solids (especially carbon containing) are vaporised/incinerated/ionised
than when only atmospheric air is available.
OR maybe it is very common,
but made more visible when containing incandescent carbon etc.?
On the nuclear lightning stuff ;
with millions of volts and thousands of amps there must be many transient extreme conditions,
and the authors of the paper above agree with me, and provide data
[Edited on 15-2-2023 by Sulaiman] |
Sulaiman:"On the nuclear lightning stuff ; with millions of volts and thousands of amps there must be many transient extreme
conditions,and the authors of the paper above agree with me, and provide data
"
I found out that recently a lightning bolt lasting 17 seconds and another one long more than 700 kilometers was registered!!!The link is in Czech
language, from the Czech Academy of Sciences, but I'm sure you can find another article in English. CG+ Lightning that strikes from the top of the
cumulonimbus, called the "anvil", has a voltage of approximately one billion volts! And this lightning bolt is "only" 10 kilometers long, not the 768
kilometers mentioned!
https://www.avcr.cz/export/sites/avcr.cz/.content/galerie-so...
[Edited on 15-2-2023 by Admagistr]
[Edited on 15-2-2023 by Admagistr]
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Mateo_swe
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I saw a tv program about ball lightning.
There was an ongoing experiment when the ball lightning fenomena showed by pure luck.
So they got measurements and it contained the same elements that are found in ordinary soil.
Maybe if one tries discharging a big marx generator into a ground teminal covered with soil one can reproduce it.
[Edited on 2023-2-21 by Mateo_swe]
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Admagistr
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| Quote: Originally posted by Mateo_swe | I saw a tv program about ball lightning.
There was an ongoing experiment when the ball lightning fenomena showed by pure luck.
So they got measurements and it contained the same elements that are found in ordinary soil.
Maybe if one tries discharging a big marx generator into a ground teminal covered with soil one can reproduce it.
[Edited on 2023-2-21 by Mateo_swe] |
It's a very interesting idea with the Marx generator. His discharges are probably the closest to natural lightning.Some theories about ball lightning
claim that silicon in the soil is important for its formation.There is also the thought of burning carbon in ozone, has anyone done such an
experiment?Apparently there is a big risk of explosion, the process would have to
be slowed down, or ozonized air would have to be used...
[Edited on 21-2-2023 by Admagistr]
[Edited on 21-2-2023 by Admagistr]
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Sulaiman
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Wikipedia article : Ball Lightning
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning
Lots of partial answers, with references and links
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wg48temp9
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Observations of ball lightning
Following a link in the wiki article, the following is a paper on the observation of ball lightning:
Attachment: obs-ball-lightning-cen2014.pdf (866kB)
This file has been downloaded 128 times
Below is a snip of one of the images of ball lightning (marked BL) with its spectrum on the right.
Apparently the ball lightning is on the ground at the same point at which the strike enters the ground. That suggests its just the hot spot of the
entry point of the strike not necessarily ball lightning. However the paper states that the ball moves after the strike is no longer visible which
suggests it is a form of ball lightning.
The above paper has separate paper for supplemental information that has more images but I have not found that yet.
I am wg48 but not on my usual pc hence the temp handle.
Thank goodness for Fleming and the fungi.
Old codger' lives matters, wear a mask and help save them.
Be aware of demagoguery, keep your frontal lobes fully engaged.
I don't know who invented mRNA vaccines but they should get a fancy medal and I hope they made a shed load of money from it.
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Beezwax
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| Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr | | Quote: Originally posted by Mateo_swe | I saw a tv program about ball lightning.
There was an ongoing experiment when the ball lightning fenomena showed by pure luck.
So they got measurements and it contained the same elements that are found in ordinary soil.
Maybe if one tries discharging a big marx generator into a ground teminal covered with soil one can reproduce it.
[Edited on 2023-2-21 by Mateo_swe] |
It's a very interesting idea with the Marx generator. His discharges are probably the closest to natural lightning.Some theories about ball lightning
claim that silicon in the soil is important for its formation.There is also the thought of burning carbon in ozone, has anyone done such an
experiment?Apparently there is a big risk of explosion, the process would have to
be slowed down, or ozonized air would have to be used...
[Edited on 21-2-2023 by Admagistr]
[Edited on 21-2-2023 by Admagistr] |
I have never been satisfied be this explanation for ball lightning.
If ball lightning is formed from lightning striking physical materials, why does it appear spontaneously in people's houses?
Another thing that is difficult to explain is how ball lightning is able to move through solid objects, such as glass.
Seems more likely to me that ball lightning is a quantum phenomenon.
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Admagistr
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@Beezwax:
I have never been satisfied be this explanation for ball lightning.
If ball lightning is formed from lightning striking physical materials, why does it appear spontaneously in people's houses?
Another thing that is difficult to explain is how ball lightning is able to move through solid objects, such as glass.
Seems more likely to me that ball lightning is a quantum phenomenon. [/rquote]
The mystery of ball lightning can't be solved by a simple and banal explanation,it is certainly a complicated and complex phenomenon.If one day ball
lightning can be explained,it will certainly advance the knowledge in physics a very lot...Today, the existence of ball lightning is no longer doubted
by most people and scientists.There is a mystery in its existence and every natural mystery has beauty in it... This phenomenon certainly has a quantum background...
[Edited on 5-4-2023 by Admagistr]
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