Fulmen
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Exterminating voles (burrowing rodent)
So a friend has a major problem with voles. Unfortunately they have recently banned the use of poisonous gas, so nobody sells calcium carbide anymore.
Regular rat poison is ineffective as the get enough vitamin K through their diet to be fairly immune. That really only leaves traps which is a major
undertaking, so I'm tasked with finding a better approach. Regular poisons are out of the question as it could kill their cats or contaminate the
soil.
My best suggestion so far (other than a continued search for carbide) is motor exhaust, which should be doable albeit a bit equipment intensive in the
long run.
Chlorine from bleach might also be an option. Perhaps a bit cumbersome, especially if you need to cover multiple entrances, but it's simple, low cost
and OTC.
Another interesting approach would be a pyrotechnic gas generator of sorts, but it needs to be "clean" in the sense that it won't leave any dangerous
ash or byproducts. Tall order, I know. But this is Sciencemadness, if anyone can come up with a solution it's you guys.
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yobbo II
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CO cartridges were tried for badgers.
Made fron Na Nitrate and charcoal.
https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/wdmconference/1993/all1993/30...
Yob
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Fulmen
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Good find, it lead me to this:
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/sites/default/files/8-gas-cartrid...
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Dr.Bob
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My favorite solution to most problems is explosives. Anyone else here see the Red Green Show. Or Bill Murrey and the gopher...
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Fulmen
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Agreed. But sadly there are burrows next to the house foundation, so I expect that solution to be rejected.
This looks like a hoot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgztUzqaL3E
[Edited on 29-7-25 by Fulmen]
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bariumbromate
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put about 17g of calcium hypochlorite (super shock pool chem) powder in the entrance hole, then pour 311ml of hcl down the hole on top of the calcium
hypochlorite, it will generate a lot of chlorine that will flood the hole and kill the voles, after that RUN.
EDIT: make sure that everyone leaves the area and it's not too windy or it will blow all the chlorine out and kill you 
[Edited on 29-7-2025 by bariumbromate]
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Fulmen
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The USDA document posted earlier lists two compositions:
1:
Sodium nitrate 53%
Charcoal 28%
Fullers earth and Borax 19%
2:
Sodium nitrate 50%
Charcoal 9%
Sulfur 38%
Undisclosed 3%
The second one seems to be most common for gophers and smaller rodents and should be quite simple to make.
@bariumbromate: That's another approach that should work. Unfortunately calcium hypochlorite isn't common around here, I can only find cyanuric acid
based products.
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shadowflare
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everyone here giving reasonable/boring responses so i'll propose something else:
i think it would be absolutely hilarious if sticking a garden hose into one of their burrows does the trick. that method definitely has my vote.
the more boring but effective method (outside of explosive or traps) would be carbon monoxide, its used pretty commonly on even professional
extermination. some people have mentioned using car exhaust, which back before modern epa regulations would have produced. for making it i recommend
filling a can up with charcoal, a hole on either end, and forcing air through it with heat gun, hair drier, ,vacuum, whatever. a paint can with press
fit lid works quite well. alternatively you could dig a hole next to the burrow and cover it, digging out small channels for airflow into the burrow
with the input being at the bottom. monoxide smells slightly sweet, if theres enough to smell you're already breathing in unsafe amounts so abort. you
become noseblind scarily quick too so pay close attention.
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Fulmen
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Water is supposedly not very effective, apparently they build their nests with that in mind. But I suppose enough of anything will cause havoc.
Another candidate that deserves consideration is H2S. Simple to make (iron sulfide and HCl) and toxic as heck.
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chempyre235
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I don't know where you are, but zinc phosphide pellets are available in the US for moles and voles. These could be used directly or acidified to
PH3 gas, though the pellets are only 2% phosphide by weight. Surely ammonium salts could work reasonably well instead of phosphide, or
perhaps by the heating of urea with base.
Alternatively, I used to see strychnine for the same purpose, though I haven't seen it on store shelves for the last couple of years.
"However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results." -Winston Churchill
"I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride." -@Madscientist
"...the elements shall melt with fervent heat..." -2 Peter 3:10
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Twospoons
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I've euthanised rats from a live capture trap using DCM. Rat in a box with a little dcm on a tissue makes them woozy in 30sec, unconscious in 1 minute
and dead with 5min. You might be able to adapt that to flooding the vole burrow with DCM vapor.
The MSDS I read says DCM is metabolised into carbon monoxide in the body.
Helicopter: "helico" -> spiral, "pter" -> with wings
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CuriousOnlooker
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Maybe there's a youth in the neighbourhood who has ferrets that could be sent down after them?
Condemnant quo non intellegunt.
Never fire a warning shot. It is a waste of ammunition. ~ Hunter S. Thompson
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Fulmen
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If zinc phosphide was available we wouldn't be having this discussion. But aluminum sulfide should produce H2S in contact with water, and that
shouldn't be too hard to make.
There is even a entry in the wiki:
https://www.sciencemadness.org/smwiki/index.php/Aluminium_su...
[Edited on 30-7-25 by Fulmen]
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Radiums Lab
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In our area they use NaF as rat poison.
Water is dangerous if you don't know how to handle it, elemental fluorine (F₂) on the other hand is pretty tame if you know what you are doing.
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Fulmen
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That'll work, but regular poisons are out of the question as it's a vegetable garden and they have cats. I'm going to try the second sulfur-based
smoke bomb first, if that doesn't do the trick I'll explore aluminum sulfide.
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BromicAcid
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There is an article here:
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/ie50136a024
It was written in 1921 so shortly after WWI and the author is trying to figure out what to do with the abundance of phosgene remaining after the war.
The conclusion of the article, which covers discovering a good solvent for phosgene, is this:
| Quote: | | The imagination allows of possibilities of practical uses for such solutions in ridding lawns, etc., of moles, and in "mopping up" rats and other
vermin. |
Interestingly, just looking at the numbers,phosphine is an order of magnitude more toxic than phosgene when comparing the LD50's. But to me it just
seems over-the-moon nuts to do this (no, I am not advocating that anyone do this, I just thought it was a funny article but then I went down the
rabbit hole of the LD50).
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bariumbromate
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don't do hydrogen sulfide. it will stay in the ground and the garden will stink for months, my fume hood still smells after 1 year ago i made H2S
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Fulmen
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Oh, that doesn't sound good. Guess I'll have to do some field tests far away from people first if I want to explore that approach. Thanks for the
warning.
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bnull
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There was some research about inducing a sort of hibernation in small animals with the help of hydrogen sulfide (see, for example, Potential applications of hydrogen sulfide-induced suspended animation). Imagine this, you try to wipe the voles out of your garden but they come
back some time later, as if they had taken a few days off.
Are repellents out of question?
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yobbo II
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Another one I have heard (on this board) that is used for rats is ClO2. Generated from Na Chlorate and acid.
It is explosive at high concentrations so you would need to keep the concentrations low.
Yob
[Edited on 2-8-2025 by yobbo II]
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Fulmen
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@bnull:
No, anything that isn't dangerous to cats or poisons the soil is of interest. I'm looking at this with a two-prong approach. First chemical warfare to
get rid of the infestation, then they need to make the area less appealing to the vermin to prevent a repeat.
I did try the "Giant Destroyer" (with sulfur) mix today, but it wouldn't ignite at all. I suspect the sodium nitrate was too wet, I'll make another
batch with potassium nitrate to see if that solves the issue.
[Edited on 2-8-25 by Fulmen]
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charley1957
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I’m not even sure what a vole is, but I’ve had trouble with gophers in the past. I have tried engine exhaust for hours and hours, I’ve tried
flooding, I’ve tried waiting and shooting them. My best results came from just digging out the tunnel and setting traps. Once I caught the gopher,
I stuffed his dead body back down into the tunnel and filled it all back in. I haven’t had a gopher now in six or seven years.
You can’t claim you drank all day if you didn’t start early in the morning.
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CuriousOnlooker
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Quote: Originally posted by charley1957  | | I’m not even sure what a vole is, but I’ve had trouble with gophers in the past. I have tried engine exhaust for hours and hours, I’ve tried
flooding, I’ve tried waiting and shooting them. My best results came from just digging out the tunnel and setting traps. Once I caught the gopher,
I stuffed his dead body back down into the tunnel and filled it all back in. I haven’t had a gopher now in six or seven years.
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Sounds like the simplest, and effective.
Condemnant quo non intellegunt.
Never fire a warning shot. It is a waste of ammunition. ~ Hunter S. Thompson
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Fulmen
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The new formula worked much better, igniting easily and produces copious amounts of thick sulfur-rich smoke. I'm going to make up a 10-pack to see if
it has any effect.
Charley: Voles (link in the original post) are about the size of rats. Digging out the tunnels isn't viable unless you feel like digging up an entire
field, these suckers are numerous. And it's not like we're ever going to exterminate them, but we need to downsize the population significantly. A
friend of them recently lost 1500 apple trees, so this isn't a minor nuisance.
Of course chemical warfare is just the first step, a long term solution will include repellents and other ways of making the area less habitable.
Putting up more owl nest boxes is also something that is being considered.
We're not banging rocks together here. We know how to put a man back together.
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