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Author: Subject: Copper Compound Reactions
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[*] posted on 23-9-2011 at 00:12


Great Forum. Well this is my first post. :)

I tried to make Na2CuCl4 by adding NaCl to CuCl2 solution, and the solution went from bluish to green. But I got problems, to get that stuff out of the solution. :(
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[*] posted on 23-9-2011 at 00:17


what is Na2CuCl4 used for? well are there any byproducts from the reaction? if not, then cant you just evaporate the solution?



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[*] posted on 26-9-2011 at 22:10


Na<sub>2</sub>CuCl<sub>4</sub> = Sodium Tetrachlorocuprate(II)
Honestly I don't know any of its uses and I don't think that the reaction has any byproducts.
2NaCl + CuCl<sub>2</sub> = Na<sub>2</sub>CuCl<sub>4</sub>





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[*] posted on 26-9-2011 at 22:21


I don't think that reaction exists. Do you have a reference for it?



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[*] posted on 26-9-2011 at 22:26


If it does exist and does work, then you should be able to simply evaporate away the solution to form Sodium Tetrachlorocuprate(II)

I guess if its a nice looking salt then it doesnt matter if it hasnt got any uses, may make a colour effect in a flame... Yellow + Green/Blue :P




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[*] posted on 26-9-2011 at 23:09


A Wikipedia page on CuCl<sub>2</sub>,

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper(II)_chloride#Properties_and_reactions"> Here </a>

It tells that CuCl<sub>2</sub> reacts with chloride sources to form CuCl<sub>3</sub><sup>-</sup> and CuCl<sub>4</sub><sup>2-</sup> ions.




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[*] posted on 26-9-2011 at 23:29


So in other words if would make copper 3 or 4 chlorides insteaspd of reacting to make Sodium Tetrachlorocuprate(II) ?



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[*] posted on 26-9-2011 at 23:37


Yeah it might work. Every preparation I've seen uses concentrated HCl though. The color change you observed could be the result of a small fraction of tetrachlorocuprate forming.



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[*] posted on 26-9-2011 at 23:38


Maybe yes
:P

[Edited on 27-9-2011 by rstar]




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[*] posted on 26-9-2011 at 23:56


Here's what i got after evaporation, sorry for bad picture quality :



Na2CuCl4.JPG - 121kB




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[*] posted on 27-9-2011 at 00:19


Yeah I was going to say, where would the Sodium go if the copper gained another chlorine, would the copper 3 and 4 chloride make a better flame co our then copper 2 Chloride? Or doesn't the extra chlorine make any Difference?
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[*] posted on 27-9-2011 at 00:57


Quote: Originally posted by rstar  
Here's what i got after evaporation, sorry for bad picture quality :





Is this ur suposibly Sodium Tetrachlorocuprate(II)?
Because that kinda looks exectly like my copper (II) chloride

The picture on the Left is no flash and the one on right is with the flash... Copper (II) Chloride in a concerntrated solution is one colour, and once dilute it turns another colour (cant remember if its blue to green or green to blue)




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[*] posted on 27-9-2011 at 01:13


ok for some reason my pictures didnt attach :/ prob coz if shit internet



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[*] posted on 27-9-2011 at 03:46


@ rstar: A nugget of the purest green: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkZFuKHXa7w

;) Robert




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[*] posted on 27-9-2011 at 04:09


Quote: Originally posted by Chemistry Alchemist  

Is this ur suposibly Sodium Tetrachlorocuprate(II)?
Because that kinda looks exectly like my copper (II)


I also think like that's just a mixture of CuCl<sub>2</sub> and NaCl. The complex might have decomposed as I got all solvent evaporated. :(

Maybe the complex is only stable in solution form.




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[*] posted on 27-9-2011 at 04:16


@Arthur Dent
Thanx for the video link, that man has done the "Green" gold, it might be eco friendly ;)




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[*] posted on 27-9-2011 at 04:21


Quote: Originally posted by Chemistry Alchemist  
So in other words if would make copper 3 or 4 chlorides insteaspd of reacting to make Sodium Tetrachlorocuprate(II) ?


They are not Copper 3 or 4 chlorides
they are:
CuCl<sub>3</sub><sup>-</sup> = Trichlorocuprate(II) ion
CuCl<sub>4</sub><sup>2-</sup> = Tetrachlorocuprate(II) ion




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[*] posted on 27-9-2011 at 09:22


When copper(II) is crystallized out of an acidic solution, it forms green crystals, such as my CuCl2. This is probably due to the presence of moisture, which allows CuCl4(2-) ions to be in there. When dried further, it turns bluer as the rest of the HCl is driven off, leaving aqua ions behind.



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[*] posted on 27-9-2011 at 10:06


NaCl and CuCl2 have different solubility, and I don't know about the solubility of NaCl in concentrated HCl, what you got is most certainly a mixture of NaCl and CuCl2, may be a small amount of CuCl3 -1/CuCl4/ 2- in there...
Those complexes are usually made with cesium/rubidium, mostly cesium. CsCl in soluble in concentrated HCl, whereas the complex salt is not.
Here is a detailed preparation of those salts and a bit of information about them: http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/exps/CsCuCl3/inde...
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[*] posted on 29-9-2011 at 01:34
Precipitation of Copper Phosphate


Sorry to change the subject but i made Copper Phosphate by reacting Phosphoric Acid with Copper Oxide, i now hve a deep Blue solution of copper phosphate, ive wanted the solution to evaporate to form the precipitate but for some reason it isnt evaporating... how can i precipitate it out? can i add more water to it? Copper Phosphate is insoluble in water but soluble in phosphoric acid... could this work?

Another method is reacting the solution with Sodium Carbonate, this will react with the acid to neutralize it and and precipitate the Copper Phosphate but because the Copper Phosphate is in solution, would the Sodium Carbonate also react with the Copper Phosphate to Form Copper Carbonate and Sodium Phosphate?




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[*] posted on 29-9-2011 at 04:47


If you have a deep blue solution I would assume you have excess phosphoric acid, since copper phosphate is insoluble. What quantities of reagents did you use? Ideally it seems like you should add more CuO until all the phosphate is thrown down, but dilution might also work. It should be easy enough to draw off a few ml of your solution and dilute it with 20x its volume in water to see what happens.
As for the sodium carbonate idea, yes, I suspect you end up with copper carbonate and sodium phosphate.
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[*] posted on 29-9-2011 at 05:00


i just added CuO untill it hardly fizzed, so do you suggest keep adding the CuO untill no more dissolves? yeah ill try dilute a small proportion of it and see what happens



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