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Author: Subject: Nitrogen Phosphide Synthisis?
symboom
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shocked.gif posted on 31-5-2011 at 10:41
Nitrogen Phosphide Synthisis?




24 SCl2 + 64 NH3 → 4 S4N4 + S8 + 48 NH4Cl

or

4 NH4Cl + 6 S2Cl2 → S4N4 + 16 HCl + S8

using phousphours in the reaction instead of sulfur
could nitrogen phosphide be made what are its properties

-------------------------------
ive read some where that these compounds should never be mixed
but im not sure what they form if they are

acetic acid and ethylene glycol-->??

ammonium nitrate or ammonium chloride with chlorine --> i know it makes nitrogen trichloride by what is the other products

HF and ammonia--> doesnt that make ammonium fluoride don't know why that is bad its not toxic

[Edited on 31-5-2011 by symboom]
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[*] posted on 31-5-2011 at 11:48


Quote: Originally posted by symboom  


24 SCl2 + 64 NH3 → 4 S4N4 + S8 + 48 NH4Cl

or

4 NH4Cl + 6 S2Cl2 → S4N4 + 16 HCl + S8

using phousphours in the reaction instead of sulfur
could nitrogen phosphide be made what are its properties

-------------------------------
Well Phosphide of nitrogen has been know since 1858.

Mellor VIII:123 Discuses phosphorus nitride P3S5. Not noted to
be energetic.
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[*] posted on 31-5-2011 at 18:38


Ive heard of this compound before from a book.
this is a weak primary explosive and very sensitive.
but its structure is very interesting..
you can have a try
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[*] posted on 1-6-2011 at 06:30


Pure, stoichiometric, hydrogen-free, and crystalline phosphorus nitride P3N5 has been obtained for the first time by reaction of (PNCl2)3 and NH4Cl between 770 and 1050 K
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The reaction of PCl5 and NH4Cl affords substances with the empirical formula PNCl2:> then to phosphorus nitride [1] Purification by sublimation gives mainly the trimer (PNCl2)3 and tetramer (PNCl2)4. These rings were described by Liebig in 1832[2][3] in his study of the reaction of PCl5 and NH3:

PCl5 + NH4Cl → 1/n (NPCl2)n + 4 HCl

Typically reactions are conducted in chlorobenzene solution.
--------
in his study of the reaction of PCl5 and NH3: i think if i just react the two that should make phosphorus nitride which i had the wrong name on my title as it should be this
also what are rthe properties of this conpound what is it reactive with reaction with water? what stable environment to preform this reaction under.

as stated in one source
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[*] posted on 2-6-2011 at 05:07


What was the information source of your synthesis?



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[*] posted on 2-6-2011 at 09:03
Mellor sez.


This from Mellor's 16-volume opus.

VIIII and VIII Supplement II



Phosphorus-nitride-Mellor-122.jpg - 684kB Phosphorus-nitride-Mellor-123.jpg - 626kB Phosphorus-nitride-Mellor-369.jpg - 441kB Phosphorus-nitride-Mellor-370.jpg - 621kB Phosphorus-nitride-Mellor-371.jpg - 459kB


djh
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Organic Chemistry: The practice of transmuting
vile substances into publications.

Anon.
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[*] posted on 3-6-2011 at 06:17


About your signature:

1 I think they under go exothermic esterfaction
2 NCl3 is explosive. In addition to NCl3 you get less chlorinated amines such as NH2Cl and NHCl2. It's an interesting combination but a very deadly one to actually mix
3. Ammonium flouride is TOXIC. It's one of the most toxic flouride salts.
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[*] posted on 3-6-2011 at 10:02


Quote: Originally posted by mewrox99  
About your signature:

1 I think they under go exothermic esterfaction
2 NCl3 is explosive. In addition to NCl3 you get less chlorinated amines such as NH2Cl and NHCl2. It's an interesting combination but a very deadly one to actually mix
3. Ammonium flouride is TOXIC. It's one of the most toxic flouride salts.


oh thats not my signature i was asking some more questions but did not want to make a whole other post just for those small questions
thanks for the answers those were puzzling me
for number three i thought i would form nitrogen trifloride NF3
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[*] posted on 3-6-2011 at 16:14


Quote: Originally posted by symboom  
Quote: Originally posted by mewrox99  
About your signature:

1 I think they under go exothermic esterfaction
2 NCl3 is explosive. In addition to NCl3 you get less chlorinated amines such as NH2Cl and NHCl2. It's an interesting combination but a very deadly one to actually mix
3. Ammonium flouride is TOXIC. It's one of the most toxic flouride salts.


oh thats not my signature i was asking some more questions but did not want to make a whole other post just for those small questions
thanks for the answers those were puzzling me
for number three i thought i would form nitrogen trifloride NF3


HF + ammonia yeilds ammonium fluoride. Not NF3. BTW unless you are doing plasma ashing or making semiconductors NF3 wouldn't be of any use to you. You might be surprised to find out That NF3 is a very stable nitrogen trihalide that exists as a gas. It's not explosive like the other Nitrogen Trihalides. This has alot to do with the size of the fluorine atom as well as it's chemistry.
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[*] posted on 3-6-2011 at 16:16


Ammonium fluoride and Ammonium Bifluoride are about as dangerous as HF. They will burn you and poison you. they also etch glass. They are used in glass etching pastes sold at hobby shops.
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[*] posted on 3-8-2011 at 19:16


A research team lead by Thomas Klapötke has produced a compound with the structure
P3N3(N3)6, a hexagonal ring containing alternating phosphorous and nitrogen atoms, with two azido groups on each phosphorous atom. The ring appears to be aromatic.
http://www.chemie.uni-muenchen.de/ac/klapoetke/?menu=news
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.200601670/ab...

It is called hexaazidocyclotriphosphazene, and is a sensitive liquid explosive. It explodes at 220 °C. It was probably prepared by treating hexachlorophosphazene with sodium azide.

The hexahydrazide also exists.
P3N3(NHNH2)6
R. J. A. Otto and L. F. Audrieth. J. American Chemical Society 80, 3575 (1958)

Potentially many interesting energetic salts could be prepared from this compound...

[Edited on 4-8-2011 by AndersHoveland]




I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying lets remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
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[*] posted on 5-8-2011 at 03:38


Apparently P3N5 is not explosive, as it decomposes at 800degC.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Mtth5g59dEIC&pg=PA737&a...




I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying lets remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
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[*] posted on 6-8-2011 at 17:40


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphide

The term you use is actually incorrect, since nitrogen is more electronegative than phosphorus...

Assuming that you mean to say a nitrogen triple-bonded to a phosphorus atom...

Knowing that nitrogen gas is incredibly unreactive and that triple bonds store a LOT of energy (the only way to make C-C triple bonds is arc furnaces or using alkali metal amides (explosive in moist air!) to cause DOUBLE elimination reactions on vicinal alkyl dihalides), the gas would probably be either incredibly uninterestingly unreactive like nitrogen OR so energetically unstable that it just spontaneously dissociates to nitrogen gas and phosphorus solid.

This being said the only possible way might be to use high energy UV radiation to create atomic nitrogen and atomic phosphorus and hope something happens, however knowing that phosphorus can form polyatomic ions of many different charges you'd be incredibly hard pressed to make any PN gas.

However what I said was just somewhat educated speculation, your best bet would be to ask a computational chemist. :)




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[*] posted on 8-8-2011 at 11:56


Quote: Originally posted by Otter  

because of the triple bond, the gas would probably be either incredibly uninterestingly unreactive like nitrogen OR so energetically unstable that it just spontaneously dissociates to nitrogen gas and phosphorus solid


...OR, more likely, the triple bond in PΞN would have properties somewhere between those two extreme examples you mentioned.

The compound "PN" typically exists as a polymer.




I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying lets remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
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