Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1  2    4
Author: Subject: Advice sought on CO
m1tanker78
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 685
Registered: 5-1-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-6-2011 at 08:54


Please don't use ethylene glycol. It may take DAYS for the dog to die and will suffer greatly in that time. If all else fails, slitting the dogs throat properly will cause it to pass out until it bleeds to death. Sounds cruel but I think it's better (for the dog) than taking a shovel or stick to its head.

Find an animal doctor or seek advice from a MD before you take this into your hands. Perhaps a farmer can help??

Tank
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aura
Harmless
*




Posts: 27
Registered: 22-6-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-6-2011 at 08:56


No, I really don't have the heart to slit his throat (I put the knife there and just couldn't do it). And poisons are out of question.

[Edited on 22-6-2011 by Aura]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
LanthanumK
National Hazard
****




Posts: 298
Registered: 20-5-2011
Location: New Jersey
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-6-2011 at 08:58


Ask someone else to do it then, someone you trust.



hibernating...
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Saerynide
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 954
Registered: 17-11-2003
Location: The Void
Member Is Offline

Mood: Ionic

[*] posted on 22-6-2011 at 09:01


Just be with him. Stay by his side and let him know how much you love him. If you think he is suffering that much that you want to take his life, it will not be long before he leaves on his own anyway. Just comfort him. That is the best you can do for anyone you love. No one wants to die alone...

Also for you own sanity, don't put him down. It will scar you for life. You will never get over it. you may think you are doing him a favor now, but your decision will haunt you.

You need to ask yourself, if this was your sibling or your human friend, no matter how much he or she suffered, would you kill them? Would they ask you to kill them? What would they want from you, other than for you to be there for them? Why should it be any different for your dog?

[Edited on 6/23/2011 by Saerynide]




"Microsoft reserves the right at all times to monitor communications on the Service and disclose any information Microsoft deems necessary to... satisfy any applicable law, regulation or legal process"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aura
Harmless
*




Posts: 27
Registered: 22-6-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-6-2011 at 09:31


Well, I tried all these options and nobody would help. MD's were suspicious (maybe rightfully so), there are pills I don't have access to, guns are illegal here, we have no farmers like you have in America. It's incredibly frustrating.
And the same here-please, guys, don't take any offense, because it's not my intention-instead of advice on how can I safely manufacture CO, I got into something else.
It's time to go to bed in my part of the world. Have a nice day!

[Edited on 22-6-2011 by Aura]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Morgan
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1521
Registered: 28-12-2010
Member Is Online

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-6-2011 at 09:50


I once saw a National Geographic photographer hang it up in Africa, he couldn't stand to see all the animals eating each other on a grand scale. Life is very sad on many levels. I have a dachshund that I inherited when my father died. My dog nearly died of pancreatitis and didn't eat for weeks on end. Finally I got him to eat. Then he got sick again and I think I lost a few years of my life worrying from the stress. But now he is better. I feed him fresh healthy foods, keep him slim, and give him exercise. He turned 15 last month and gets around fine now, and even jogs with me for a block or two.
I really found the documentary to be very good. I didn't care for the first 7 minutes either. Perhaps the last 7 minutes illustrate the best way to go, with euphoria.
http://documentaryheaven.com/how-to-kill-a-human-being/

Nitrogen is formally considered to have been discovered by Daniel Rutherford in 1772, who called it noxious air or fixed air.[1] The fact that there was an element of air that does not support combustion was clear to Rutherford. Nitrogen was also studied at about the same time by Carl Wilhelm Scheele, Henry Cavendish, and Joseph Priestley, who referred to it as burnt air or phlogisticated air. Nitrogen gas was inert enough that Antoine Lavoisier referred to it as "mephitic air" or azote, from the Greek word ἄζωτος (azotos) meaning "lifeless".[2] In it, animals died and flames were extinguished. Lavoisier's name for nitrogen is used in many languages (French, Polish, Russian, etc.) and still remains in English in the common names of many compounds, such as hydrazine and compounds of the azide ion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen



[Edited on 22-6-2011 by Morgan]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Random
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1018
Registered: 7-5-2010
Location: In ur closet
Member Is Offline

Mood: Energetic

[*] posted on 22-6-2011 at 10:24


Would you want to kill a human (possibly a member of your family) if you see him/her suffering? I think you wouldn't, you would try to make his natural death easier, but definitelly you wouldn't try to harm him or her.

For dog, it's the same thing, so I don't think you should try to kill him, that won't make it easy for him as every way when you die is painful even when you die in sleep.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aura
Harmless
*




Posts: 27
Registered: 22-6-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-6-2011 at 10:30


I won't have anyone suffer, man or animal; still, there should be ways to let an animal go without suffering, into an eternal sleep. Terminate the pain, end the suffering, the humane thing to do. Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
LanthanumK
National Hazard
****




Posts: 298
Registered: 20-5-2011
Location: New Jersey
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-6-2011 at 10:36


Instead of Sciencemadness, its Animalrightsmadness. :cool:



hibernating...
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
The WiZard is In
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1617
Registered: 3-4-2010
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-6-2011 at 10:39


Quote: Originally posted by Aura  
Hello,
I have a question that haunts me. I know VERY little Chemistry, so please bear with me, although my post may look rather silly. I’m looking for a humane way to end the misery of my 15-year old dog. Firearms are not available in my country, I don’t have the heart to smash his head or anything like that. I can, however (and ironically), legally purchase 1 l sulfuric acid (96-98%) and 1 l formic acid (80%). I have no lab equipment, since science is not my field. Maybe I can use a 10 l rather thick glass canister to make CO. I’d like to end him this way, in a manner that should be also safe for me. I’m aware that the reaction would also produce heat, but I don’t know how much. I’d really appreciate some advice. Thank you.


Your one atom off from an ideal gas.

Baby fur seals are killed by clubbing ... granted not pretty,
however, this method has been tested and found to humane,
i.e., quick, painless and does not stress the animal.


djh
----
Dead. Needlessly,
John M Allen
NY Times, 9x76.

Pawling, N.Y.—I killed your cat early this morning, You know, the
small black-and-white one, sleek-furred and friendly—about three months
old, I'd say. I laid it down on the front section of yesterday, newspaper and
folded a part of the paper over its head—the white side up—and then I
took an old walking stick and I bashed the paper over the head as hard as
I could. Four times, just to make sure. It broke the old walking stick.

I though you’d want to know, because it was your cat, and you must
have loved it very much, for it always walked right in front, crisscrossing—
in a trusting, brushing sort of way, trying to get picked up and petted.

At least I thought you ought to know how it died. How two dogs in the
neighborhood, one a golden retriever, the other a red setter, had cornered
the cat by our front door, fought with it, and finally chewed through its backbone.

Oh, it fought hard and the cat-shrieks of terror woke me up. But the
dogs were too big, your cat too small, too young. So I did all I could think
of to put it out of its misery, as it lay there on the grass, wet, bleeding,
feces protruding, from fear or bite pressure or both, its eyes open, whining
gently. I had no choice.

But you did. Every year, literally scores of summer people leave their
cats by our house—hoping, I'm sure that they'll find a way, And most of
them do, for a while. I've seen as many as 30 cats over there, left off by
their loving owners who felt, I'm sure, that a dairy farm in the foothills of
the Berkshires was a perfect spot for a cat. In a way it is. For a while. But
cats procreate, and soon there are too many. And then one day there are
none, and I've never asked the farmer what happens to them. I care, but I
don't want to know.

And maybe you didn't want to know that I bludgeoned your kitten. All
you wanted to remember was the delight your children had with it, all
summer long, as it grew from an eyes-closed fluff to hesitant staggered to
pretended hunter. I'm sure you wanted to remember it curled up on the
end of a bed, with the shaft of sunlight warming its sweet-smelling fur.

But you can't remember only that, you know. Because life is a
continuum, and we can't escape the responsibility of our acts. You
enjoyed your cat, and your kids enjoyed your cat. And somehow you were
able to divorce the enjoyment from your responsibility. You may have
taught your children love and playfulness and the wonder of nature. But
you also taught them to throw away something that wasn't convenient,
that didn't fit in with your plans, or your landlord's plans.

You taught them to pass a responsibility on to others—who were
unknowing and unwilling. You convinced yourself—because you wanted
to—that your kitten would be happy and well feed on fresh cow's milk. I'm
sure you even rationalized yourself into believing that it would be better
off, really, with all those other cats.

No, I', not talking about one cat, your cat, which must have been loved
because it didn't do to the barn but across the road to our home to play
with our children (and our three cats). And that's where the dogs bit
though its spinal column. An where I had to bash its head in to relieve its
agony. Because you really didn't care enough. Or you wouldn't have done
it.


You wouldn't even have accepted the responsibility in the first place. If
you really had cared.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aura
Harmless
*




Posts: 27
Registered: 22-6-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-6-2011 at 10:42


Oh, thanks for the advice, but it sounds gruesome. I'll never be able to bring myself to do it.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Morgan
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1521
Registered: 28-12-2010
Member Is Online

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-6-2011 at 11:06


Quote: Originally posted by Aura  
Thanks, Morgan, but it's about killing a dog, not a human. There are probably many ways to do it, but I need to do it quickly and painlessly, because I don't have the heart to do it otherwise. I'll go check those links anyway.
Ooops, I watched only 7 mins of the first one and already freaked. That's why I dream of something simple, like pressing a button-and there goes my dog!
I was hoping CO would do the trick, but the whole topic of the thread just went away.
[Edited on 22-6-2011 by Aura]

Watch the last 7 minutes. I might like to die that way myself. You should try to save your dog if at all possible. And find an animal doctor, there must be one somewhere.
http://documentaryheaven.com/how-to-kill-a-human-being/



[Edited on 22-6-2011 by Morgan]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aura
Harmless
*




Posts: 27
Registered: 22-6-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-6-2011 at 11:15


I definitely will, thankyou, but tomorrow. Now I really have go to sleep; Maybe it will provide some help. All the best, Morgan.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Morgan
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1521
Registered: 28-12-2010
Member Is Online

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-6-2011 at 11:29


Just a poem I ran across in a library a few years ago. Sad how life is sometimes, even for pets.
http://www.muttshack.org/2005/04/dogs-death-poem.html
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aura
Harmless
*




Posts: 27
Registered: 22-6-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-6-2011 at 22:17


Thanks, Morgan, I watched the last part and it seems the perfect way. The only problem is that it's well beyond my capabilities. I'd go to any length for the sake of my little pet, but I see no way to do it at home.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aura
Harmless
*




Posts: 27
Registered: 22-6-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 23-6-2011 at 02:15


Time to close this thread, folks. Thank you all for your input. What I found out (to my dissapointment) is that CO won't help me with the job. And I'm not going to have him killed in a painful manner, like poison, etc.
Special thanks to woellen, who expertly explained to me the downside of every way to manufacture CO on a large scale. Best regards.

[Edited on 23-6-2011 by Aura]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Ramiel
Vicious like a ferret
****




Posts: 484
Registered: 19-8-2002
Location: Room at the Back, Australia
Member Is Offline

Mood: Semi-demented

[*] posted on 23-6-2011 at 04:53


Dogs skulls are much harder than cats too, I don't think you want to try bashing in your dear friend's head... what if you flinch and glance a blow or don't do enough damage to end it instantly... I pale to think about it.

Now I don't want you to think I'm some kind of animal torturing psychopath, but I've had to kill a number of animals out of mercy or necessity (lived on a farm, worked in an abattoir). Some animals are hard to end cleanly with violence, dogs included.




Caveat Orator
View user's profile View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
Aura
Harmless
*




Posts: 27
Registered: 22-6-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 23-6-2011 at 05:19


Truth is, the mere thought of applying violence makes me cringe. But I have to do something; I'll still look for a humane way-quick, no pain.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
m1tanker78
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 685
Registered: 5-1-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 23-6-2011 at 05:22


Do you have a pharmacy in your town?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
bbartlog
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1139
Registered: 27-8-2009
Location: Unmoored in time
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 23-6-2011 at 06:26


Chemical means of killing may sound attractive as one pictures a fast-acting and painless poison, but the reality is that unless you have some fairly specialized drugs (morphine) or closely controlled conditions (IV with dosimeter), poison is not a good way to reliably kill something painlessly. Although it may seem violent and bloody, quick decapitation is really a better DIY way of killing things. I've killed crippled ducks and chickens with an axe (could have used a rifle but even a hollowpoint bullet in the area of the heart is slower than chopping off something's head).
View user's profile View All Posts By User
The WiZard is In
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1617
Registered: 3-4-2010
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 23-6-2011 at 06:41


Quote: Originally posted by Aura  
Hello,
I have a question that haunts me. I know VERY little Chemistry, so please bear with me, although my post may look rather silly.



Carbon dioxide is relatively humane. Don't know about dogs,
however, in humans when the CO2 tension reaches 3-5%(?)
it stimulates breathing. Put it in a comfortable box and then
put in some dry ice and wait 1/2 an hour or so to be sure.

NB - After death the dog may defecate put some newspaper down.



djh
----
In 1922 in New York, a device for the disposal of unwanted cats
was wrecked by an explosion. The cats were dropped into an iron
tank containing a lethal coal gas/air mixture. On one particular
day a fourth batch of cats included a particularly fierce black male
who clung to the basket in which he had been brought. This built
up static electrical charge on his body so that, when he was
eventually dislodged and fell through the opening to the tank, a
spark ignited the explosive mixture remaining in it. There was an
explosion and people from the office rushed in to find the three
executioners on the floor. Two were sent to hospital, one with a
possibly fractured skull, and all were more or less burned and
lacerated.

H.J. Yellop
Explsion Investigation.
The Forensic Science Society, 1980.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Morgan
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1521
Registered: 28-12-2010
Member Is Online

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 23-6-2011 at 10:28


http://www.theworldaroundyou.com/2004/09/28/man_almost_kille...

In this clip at the 42 minute mark the pigs dislike CO2 and opt for the N/Ar while eating apples.
What seems peculiar is that the scientist says breathing pure nitrogen will knock you out in 15 seconds and end your life one minute after that. Air being 78% nitrogen, you wouldn't think an extra 22% would be so fast acting?
http://documentaryheaven.com/how-to-kill-a-human-being/

Caution- Sad video on CO2 you might want to skip.
Viewer comment on nitrogen.
It definitely works.
Before some time I got bored in my lab during hot day and I set up the
stream of pure nitrogen from pressure flask against my face. I supposed
to enjoy the cold stream of gas like the stream of air from the fan,
but instead of it I suddenly woke up with my nose broken at the desk...
If I would keep some beaker or another laboratory glass on the table,
it would end in my eye without problem..
I've to admit, I didn't fell absolutely anything - I even didn't realized, when I did lost consciousness momentarily.
With compare to it, the stunning with carbon dioxide is far from
such a comfort, because carbon dioxide promoted breathing, not
inhibiting it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N082tXCac08







[Edited on 24-6-2011 by Morgan]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
ItalianChemist
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 126
Registered: 26-1-2011
Location: Italy
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 23-6-2011 at 11:00


couldn't be used a phenol injection?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Bot0nist
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1559
Registered: 15-2-2011
Location: Right behind you.
Member Is Offline

Mood: Streching my cotyledons.

[*] posted on 23-6-2011 at 12:35


Yeah, right into its heart, like the Nazis did:mad: Bet that feels nice.

I guess a general anesthetic followed by a paralytic and then a nice IV of KCl solution would do. Good enough for our convicts.



[Edited on 23-6-2011 by Bot0nist]




U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!


Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Morgan
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1521
Registered: 28-12-2010
Member Is Online

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 23-6-2011 at 16:09


From 4:30 to the ~10 minute mark, the documentary discusses the lethal injection method. The paralytic facet seems worrisome.
http://documentaryheaven.com/how-to-kill-a-human-being/


[Edited on 24-6-2011 by Morgan]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
 Pages:  1  2    4

  Go To Top