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Author: Subject: Oslo and the amateur experimenter
hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 3-8-2011 at 11:36


Quote:

My fear is some precious
15-year old is going to gene
splice the right/wrong thing
together, release it on the populace
and the last 3-inches of my Yahooo-hooo
is going to fall off!


Leaving you this way? :D

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Mixell
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[*] posted on 3-8-2011 at 11:52


Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Quote:

My fear is some precious
15-year old is going to gene
splice the right/wrong thing
together, release it on the populace
and the last 3-inches of my Yahooo-hooo
is going to fall off!


Leaving you this way? :D




That was uncalled for)

[Edited on 3-8-2011 by Mixell]
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Mildronate
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[*] posted on 3-8-2011 at 12:11


In my country maybe will not sell NH4NO3 more so easy... :(
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 3-8-2011 at 13:22


Farmers will always need NH<sub>4</sub>NO<sub>3</sub> . . .

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Fusionfire
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[*] posted on 3-8-2011 at 13:43


Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Farmers will always need NH<sub>4</sub>NO<sub>3</sub> . . .



And HNO<sub>3</sub>. A farmer near me tells me his soil is very alkaline and he buys HNO<sub>3</sub> by the tanker as a soil pH regulator + fertiliser.
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[*] posted on 3-8-2011 at 13:44


Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist  
That sounds very enlightened Fusionfire.


Why thank you :)
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Mildronate
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[*] posted on 3-8-2011 at 13:52


Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Farmers will always need NH<sub>4</sub>NO<sub>3</sub> . . .



Yes but in this moment i can just go to farm shop and buy NH4NO3, but after Oslo there is some shops in where i nee to subscribe tha i use it only as fertillizer.
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The WiZard is In
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[*] posted on 3-8-2011 at 14:46


Quote: Originally posted by Mildronate  
In my country maybe will not sell NH4NO3 more so easy... :(


Et tu?!

The U.S. Finally Starts Regulating Sales Of Ammonium Nitrate
Robert Johnson
Aug. 3, 2011, 6:05 AM

http://www.businessinsider.com/oklahoma-city-bombing-ammoniu... and a zilllion other
URL's
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KemiRockarFett
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[*] posted on 3-8-2011 at 16:13


Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In  
Quote: Originally posted by Mildronate  
In my country maybe will not sell NH4NO3 more so easy... :(


Et tu?!

The U.S. Finally Starts Regulating Sales Of Ammonium Nitrate
Robert Johnson
Aug. 3, 2011, 6:05 AM

http://www.businessinsider.com/oklahoma-city-bombing-ammoniu... and a zilllion other
URL's


USA-SSR and EU-SSR oligarki controlled puppit regimes introduces more control, laws and regulations to increase its power, meanwhile sheeple think that they become safer and more protected by the new comunismagenda.
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The WiZard is In
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[*] posted on 3-8-2011 at 17:02


Quote: Originally posted by KemiRockarFett  
Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In  
Quote: Originally posted by Mildronate  
In my country maybe will not sell NH4NO3 more so easy... :(


Et tu?!

The U.S. Finally Starts Regulating Sales Of Ammonium Nitrate
Robert Johnson
Aug. 3, 2011, 6:05 AM

http://www.businessinsider.com/oklahoma-city-bombing-ammoniu... and a zilllion other
URL's


USA-SSR and EU-SSR oligarki controlled puppit regimes introduces more control, laws and regulations to increase its power, meanwhile sheeple think that they become safer and more protected by the new comunismagenda.



Your a bit late ...

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges (Tacitus AD 56-117) Annals)

When the republic is at its most corrupt, the laws are most numerous.
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AndersHoveland
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[*] posted on 3-8-2011 at 18:07


Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In  
When the republic is at its most corrupt, the laws are most numerous.


Trying to legislate away problems will never result in real solutions. Firstly, the government must gain the respect of its citizens. Secondly, it must effectively enforce its laws. A sure sign that the government is losing control is when it starts instituting unusually harsh sentences, while at the same time, most of the lawbreakers go unpunished.

[Edited on 4-8-2011 by AndersHoveland]




I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying lets remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
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Fusionfire
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[*] posted on 3-8-2011 at 22:24


Interesting.

http://www.dhs.gov/ynews/releases/20110802-napolitano-ammoni...

Quote:
Ammonium nitrate is primarily used in fertilizers, first aid products, and regulated commercial explosives in support of the construction and mining industries. However, it has also been used as a main component in powerful explosives for attacks including the Oklahoma City bombing, the London bombings, and other acts of terrorism around the world.


AFAIK the July 7th London bombs were acetone peroxide based.

P.S. Expect your taxes to rise disproportionately to fund these new security measures + corruption.
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[*] posted on 4-8-2011 at 02:11


well as the ruling elite would say "never let a crisis go to waste"
and he played right into thier hands.
most of the catastrophies as of late have been engineered and the legislation penned before hand, ready to be enacted in times of distress.
the politicians were, and are pressured into signing for example the "patriot act" under the pretense that to not do so is treasonous, and unpatriotic.
if you examine the collapse of the world trade centers common sense would tell you they can't fall at terminal velocity without charges being placed at the base and the corner columns and there is footage (of the charges) and analytical evidence of traces of thermite being used to do this.
and then, there was the london bombings in 05.
it looks like this norweigian terrorist just made it all that much easier for them.
the patriot act has provisions taken almost verbatum from hitler's declaration of martial law in 1933 when he burned the reichstag.
if it worked in the past why change it? it's so fortunate for dictators that people's memories are so short.




Give me librium or give me meth!
Patrick Henry....
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 4-8-2011 at 02:26


Quote:
if you examine the collapse of the world trade centers common sense would tell you they can't fall at terminal velocity without charges being placed at the base and the corner columns and there is footage (of the charges) and analytical evidence of traces of thermite being used to do this.

Sheeesh!
This boomerang-shit just keeps coming back, ad nauseam . . .

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jon
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[*] posted on 4-8-2011 at 02:30


boomerang or no the laws are still in force



Give me librium or give me meth!
Patrick Henry....
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[*] posted on 4-8-2011 at 03:48


Quote: Originally posted by KemiRockarFett  


1) The Breiwik does not know a shit about chemistry, he thinks diesel is an oxidant and that boiling sulfiric acid results in NOx gasses.

2) He uses a tremendous effort to get aspirin for picrid acid synth, when he have acces to ANNM, kinepake, WHY ???

3) Hes so called blastingcap was made with the powder in shotgun shells and his own made DDNP. Is this NC powder very likely to go high order? maybee if compressed and initited with plenty of DDNP. (I dont think that an amateur like him got DDNP. )

4) The parts give fabricated impression.

5) Dino-media claims that the bomb was on 960 kg, sure baby yes! Even with a low VoD with this ammount of explosives the buildings around would have look like shit if any left. The explosive used were alumininium rich.

Something is seriusly wrong with this. Please read and judge for your self.



The guy wasnt stupid, and he had planned it for many years with very little interference. So after getting the chems, which is pretty easy, i do belive he managed to make quite a bit picric acid as boosters, and DDNP for the blasting caps.

Concering the main charge, i havent heard that much. From what the media says he had 150kg of aluminium, like 50+ liters of hobby-fuel which contained like 30% NM. So i guess its a bit hard to estimate how big the bomb was, but in his manifest i think he stated 800kgs?

But i do agree with you that the damages doesent look like a 800kg bomb. If it was that in the car, i guess alot of it didnt go high order.
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[*] posted on 4-8-2011 at 04:35


i get the impression too, that the manifesto may have been altered.
you can't believe everything the media tells you.




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The WiZard is In
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[*] posted on 4-8-2011 at 08:15


Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Quote:

My fear is some precious
15-year old is going to gene
splice the right/wrong thing
together, release it on the populace
and the last 3-inches of my Yahooo-hooo
is going to fall off!


Leaving you this way? :D




I can predict a lifetime of 1/4 night stands. Anyway steering
away from the Dismal Science (Sociology) to Biology
Chemistry......


Extracted from:—
LE Sever
ZINC DEFICIENCY IN HUMAN POPULATIONS
Zinc and Human Development: A Review.
Human Ecology, Vol. 3 No.1, 1975

[I cannot at the moment lay hands on my copy
of this journal or I would have scanned/OCR
the entire article.]

it is probably safe to say that much of the current interest in the
role of zinc in human nutrition is an outgrowth of studies of the
zinc deficiency syndrome. The syndrome is characterized by
markedly retarded growth and sexual development and has
been found in several Middle Eastern countries plus Morocco,
Tunisia, Portugal, and Panama. Interestingly, the syndrome
was first described by Lemann in 1910, in New Orleans, but its
etiology was not recognized at that time.

The Iranian men first observed were between the ages of 18
and 21 but looked like boys of 8-10 (Prasad et al., 1961). The
Egyptian patients, the first to be studied extensively, consisted
of males between the ages of 12-20 who also showed severe
growth retardation (Sandstead et al., 1967). These individuals
have been referred to as "nutritional dwarfs." Both the Iranians
and Egyptians subsisted on diets consisting mainly of
unleavened bread, plus other plant foods, which were low in
animal protein. Although the zinc content of their diets was
approximately the same as that of a typical North American
diet, these diets were high in phytate. As discussed earlier,
phytate binds zinc and makes it physiologically unavailable.

We can summarize briefly some of the manifestations of the
zinc deficiency syndrome as seen in both Iran and Egypt. Most
of the work has been done with males, although two women
have been studied in Iran (Halsted et al., 1972) and the
syndrome is by no means limited to males. Cultural prohibitions
have to a large degree limited the study of females. The
pattern of symptoms is characterized clinically by markedly
retarded growth and sexual development, pathologically by
epatosplenomegaly, delayed epiphyseal closure of the long
bones, and iron deficiency anemia, and biochemically by
subnormal concentrations of zinc in the blood, hair, urine, and
sweat and of iron and alkaline phosphatase in serum, together
with high plasma zinc turnover rates (Underwood, 1971).

Endocrine abnormalities in these patients, particularly growth
failure and hypogonadism, resembled those of idiopathic
hypopituitarism (Prasad and Oberleas, 1970). In addition,
decreased adrenocorticotropic hormone production, abnormal
oral glucose tolerance, and increased sensitivity to insulin were
frequently demonstrated (Sandstead et al., 1966). Some of
these endocrinological abnormalities have also been described
in zinc-deficient animals and may be characteristic of an
organism rendered zinc deficient during a period of expected
rapid growth (Prasad and Oberleas, 1970).

That this syndrome was attributable to zinc deficiency became
clear through studies of the effects of various diets on the
patients. In Egypt, a group of 22 of the dwarfs was treated with
different diets with markedly different results (Sandstead et al,
1967). The rate of growth was the greatest in patients who
received a hospital diet plus supplemental zinc, compared to
slower rates in those on the hospital diet supplemented with
iron and those on the diet alone. The diet used was high in
animal protein, containing egg, meat (beef or lamb), cheese,
milk, vegetables in season, and the traditional bread Sandstead
et al, 1967). On the hospital diet alone the average increment
in height was 1.8 inches, on the hospital diet plus iron 2.9
inches, and on the hospital diet plus zinc 5.0 inches (Sandstead
et al., 1967). There were also dramatic changes in the genital
development of the zinc-treated patients, while there was little
change in the patients who received the hospital diet with or
without iron. After zinc supplementation was started, pubic hair
appeared in all cases within 7-12 weeks. Genitalia size became
normal and secondary sexual characteristics developed within
12-24 weeks in all patients receiving zinc (Prasad and
Oberleas, 1970).

djh
----------
The "retarded sexual growth" condition is called (translated
from the Greek/Latin) "very small tail." However, in the original
Greek/Latin the term is more easily understood; "Micro Penis."
If you are old enough to worry about yours ... you are too old
for supplemental zink to help! Although, there may be some
truth in the legend; "Eat clams and live longer; eat oysters and
love longer." Oysters contain 900- 1 500 ppm of zinc, liver 40
-50, roast beef 45-90. It was a brave man who ate the first
oyster, or calm, bearded or otherwise!

djh
----
Byda a search of Google Pictures yields 170 000 hits for MP.




[Edited on 4-8-2011 by The WiZard is In]
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quicksilver
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[*] posted on 4-8-2011 at 08:22


To examine the tragedy on a realistic basis is very difficult because (as is a common agenda) the deeper facts are not made public until after a trial / conviction.
The public will not have the facts to the chemical elements of the bombing until many years after the fact. And in that - we may not know the specifics as it gets blurred by individuals reporting on the issue who know nothing about energetic materials. The need to stem the possibility of repeat offenses also has a great impact on that information's accuracy.

We know that ANFO is a blasting agent. It's purpose in industry is to move earth/rock, etc. It also needs to be well controlled to produce work effectively. Typically bore-holes are pattern designed with the earth-moving process of any shot. It's brisancy is simply too low to act in a manner than blast-wave detonations do when "dumb bombs" of higher VoD materials were a part of the Second World War. And even then it was of equal importance to design "containment elements" (casement) as it was to design chemical compounds.
ANFO shots for the redistribution of earth are not a "pile of material" but rather a very well thought out process wherein the blasting agent is contained. A large amount (not contained & directed) will very most often leave great amounts unexploded & therefore a much weaker response than originally conceived. Aluminized ANFO will very likely result in a higher temp of that portion that does explode. In practicality, the larger the un-contained amount, the less likely, the effectiveness of the shot. Prill material for blasting are very different than those for fertilizing in density & design. Fuel mix medium in a sheathed bore hole have a very different interaction than any free mix placed in a pile of FGAN prills.
For the perpetrator's lack of knowledge in these issues, I can only be grateful for his intellectual laziness.

The accused perpetrator was very disturbed & it's often been said that (in many cases) the line between emotional disturbance & stupidity can grow thin many times. Bombing is ugly, stupid (& on occasion, ineffective) by the very nature of non-discriminatory harm being inflicted. It could also be said that explosives used as a weapon may illustrate the height of cowardliness.

Those who have an interest in the science of energetic chemistry have a near duty to speak out against such things. Science in general has the same responsibility; as the corruption of it creates a climate of fear in the childish mentality that besets a youngster who burns himself on a hot oven: all ovens becomes objects of fear.
Yet because we live in a climate of [marketing] fear it's also imperative that any discussion be tempered with a reasonable expectation of what the listener may misunderstand.
Just as an interest in martial arts, lasers, Tesla Coils, or herpetology could be easily misunderstood, so can an interest in energetic science.

[Edited on 4-8-2011 by quicksilver]




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AndersHoveland
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[*] posted on 4-8-2011 at 10:25


Quote: Originally posted by Fusionfire  
Expect your taxes to rise disproportionately to fund these new security measures + corruption.


Increased security is generally not an effective way to prevent terrorism. Most of the ridiculous security measures taken are either overly expensive, or ineffective. The cost per life saved is several million dollars/euros. This money could be better spent saving the lives of those with life-threatening medical conditions who cannot afford quality medical care. And what about all the homeless dying on the streets from simple exposure to cold?

Almost all this increased security is a HUGE waste of money. With the huge debts our governments are getting themselves into, it would be better to let a few hundred people be killed by terrorists every year. For comparison, something as mundane as colon cancer kills 50000 Americans every year.

Consider this, the USA embassy in London abandoned a perfectly good, well-protected building to move into a virtual fortress- an ugly one at that. The cost of the new building?
1 BILLION !!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/24/us-embassy-in-londo...

[Edited on 4-8-2011 by AndersHoveland]




I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying lets remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
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Fusionfire
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[*] posted on 4-8-2011 at 16:48


Quote: Originally posted by AndersHoveland  
Quote: Originally posted by Fusionfire  
Expect your taxes to rise disproportionately to fund these new security measures + corruption.


Increased security is generally not an effective way to prevent terrorism. Most of the ridiculous security measures taken are either overly expensive, or ineffective. The cost per life saved is several million dollars/euros. This money could be better spent saving the lives of those with life-threatening medical conditions who cannot afford quality medical care. And what about all the homeless dying on the streets from simple exposure to cold?

Almost all this increased security is a HUGE waste of money. With the huge debts our governments are getting themselves into, it would be better to let a few hundred people be killed by terrorists every year. For comparison, something as mundane as colon cancer kills 50000 Americans every year.

Consider this, the USA embassy in London abandoned a perfectly good, well-protected building to move into a virtual fortress- an ugly one at that. The cost of the new building?
1 BILLION !!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/24/us-embassy-in-londo...

[Edited on 4-8-2011 by AndersHoveland]


I don't disagree with you. I made my statement in resigned disgust at the way things will go.

Even if you consider 9/11 and the two wars that followed, you can see that the Allies might (did we?) have won the military campaigns but lost the economic ($1 - 2 trillion for the USA; about one month of GDP!) and ideological wars.

Add on that all the additional expense on enhanced security, new laws, enforcement, etc.

No doubt justice must be sought following terrorist atrocities. The question is how that justice is meted out. The most cost effective manner, and indeed how Osama was executed, was by a surgical strike. Sending in the military to run a manhunt is a monumental waste of money.
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KemiRockarFett
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[*] posted on 8-8-2011 at 02:39


Quote: Originally posted by textex  
Quote: Originally posted by KemiRockarFett  


1) The Breiwik does not know a shit about chemistry, he thinks diesel is an oxidant and that boiling sulfiric acid results in NOx gasses.

2) He uses a tremendous effort to get aspirin for picrid acid synth, when he have acces to ANNM, kinepake, WHY ???

3) Hes so called blastingcap was made with the powder in shotgun shells and his own made DDNP. Is this NC powder very likely to go high order? maybee if compressed and initited with plenty of DDNP. (I dont think that an amateur like him got DDNP. )

4) The parts give fabricated impression.

5) Dino-media claims that the bomb was on 960 kg, sure baby yes! Even with a low VoD with this ammount of explosives the buildings around would have look like shit if any left. The explosive used were alumininium rich.

Something is seriusly wrong with this. Please read and judge for your self.



The guy wasnt stupid, and he had planned it for many years with very little interference. So after getting the chems, which is pretty easy, i do belive he managed to make quite a bit picric acid as boosters, and DDNP for the blasting caps.

Concering the main charge, i havent heard that much. From what the media says he had 150kg of aluminium, like 50+ liters of hobby-fuel which contained like 30% NM. So i guess its a bit hard to estimate how big the bomb was, but in his manifest i think he stated 800kgs?

But i do agree with you that the damages doesent look like a 800kg bomb. If it was that in the car, i guess alot of it didnt go high order.


Your statement is based on the assumption that the official version is correct. That is not critical thinking at all.
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[*] posted on 8-8-2011 at 06:40


[rquote]
Your statement is based on the assumption that the official version is correct. That is not critical thinking at all.[/rquote]

Hes been pretty accurate with alot of his manifest, so yes i do belive much of what is in it.

May i ask what you dont belive?

[Edited on 8-8-2011 by textex]
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[*] posted on 8-8-2011 at 07:52


Quote:
Hes been pretty accurate with alot of his manifest, so yes i do belive much of what is in it.

Despite your handle, you seem unaccustomed to writing in English, but poor spelling and usage aside, are you trying to say you believe the drivel in Breivik's 'manifesto'?



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[*] posted on 8-8-2011 at 08:21


May be he means that he believes that Breivik didn't lie about most of what he wrote in his manifest (at least the stuff that regard practical things, like his bomb making and training), for example the size of the bomb and the ingredients used to make it. Its very plausible that some things in the bomb, like the aluminium, didn't go high order and didn't cause serious damage compared to the high explosives that were in the bomb.

[Edited on 8-8-2011 by Mixell]
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