Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login - Register]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1  ..  15    17    19  ..  44
Author: Subject: Exploitation of the global economy, the coming collapse
franklyn
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2579
Registered: 30-5-2006
Location: Da Big Apple
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 20-2-2012 at 14:55


Ironic that the Parthenon reflects what Greece is
a ruin propped up by a temporary scaffold.

[file]17621[/file]

The following excerpts are loosely quoted from here _
http://seekingalpha.com/article/376361-greek-default-and-dev...

" The total value of Greek goods and services in the commerce of the EU amounts
to less than 1% of annual EU GDP. Simply writing off 100% of the Greek sovereign
and private debt held by European public and private institutions would cost about
3% of total European Union (EU) GDP. These sorts of impacts on the wealth and
productive capacity of the EU represent a mere rounding error from a global
economic point of view."
So what is the problem ?

" European banks are even more highly leveraged than US banks. If Greece enters
into a hard default and European banks were forced to write down the value of the
Greek sovereign debt that they hold in their portfolios, some of these institutions
might become insolvent. Because of the close and interlocking relationships amongst
financial institutions the insolvency of a few banks could jeopardize the integrity
of the entire European and even global financial system."

" Considering the interlocking credit and funding relationships amongst all financial
institutions, the insolvency of a few banks threatens the solvency of many others
and the liquidity of all. At the same time, given the central role that credit and
financial institutions play in the modern economic system the illiquidity and insolvency
of systemically important financial institutions threatens the stability of the entire
financial and economic system."


_____________________________

The following excerpts are loosely quoted from here _
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/ecb-has-opened-pandora%E2%80%9...

"When Greece proceeds with circumventing bond holder contract law , the spread
between the two credit lines for every country, not just the PIIGS with their 2.1
trillion €uro debt , but every other one as well which offers creditors the option of
dumping all weak protection bonds and jumping to the "strong" ones , will surge ,
as the realization that a very distinct class of sovereign debt has now been
subordinated and that a senior and junior class of sovereign debt has emerged."

" As Greece succeeds with its own exchange offer the natural next step will be
for the other PIIGS to proceed with just such an exercise in order to cut their
own debt load."

" Institutions not coerced or forced into buying European sovereign debt will be
leaving the playing field en mass as the realization dawns upon investors of
just what has taken place."



Those who buy or hold the distressed European debt , now become saddled with
revocation of guaranteed repayment priority so the money never actually has
to be repaid and the de-rated bonds take a loss as their worth is effectively
diminished. Those left holding the bag are the ones who are going to get stuck.
The hope and expectation is that this is the solution to financial meltdown. The
remaining issue is available liquidity sufficient to cover CDC (Credit Default Swaps)
that guarantee the unpaid creditors, and do the underwriters remain solvent
themselves.

The play Soros contemplates is realizable only when the bonds are traded to
others, until then it will only be paper profit.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/322818-george-soros-bet-on-i...

Iceland saved itself from pointless hardship
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-20/icelandic-anger-bri...

.

Parthenon.jpg - 35kB
View user's profile View All Posts By User
franklyn
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2579
Registered: 30-5-2006
Location: Da Big Apple
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 20-2-2012 at 20:56


Hey did you see that market crash we had a minute ago ?
No ?
Want to see it again.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/02/high-speed-trading
http://arxiv.org/abs/1202.1448
It should be obvious that such price volatility should be triggering
stop-loss conditional sell orders - but they are not !
Which baits the question at least for me , what is the order and
priority of execution when things do dive , and who gets out first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aehzwwD2II

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJWi_6s10nw
The strategy is to sell the S&P500 (SPY) index when Google searches
for " debt " increase , then buy back the S&P500 (SPY) index in the
week following. The return was 300 % in simulated trading over six years.

It is note worthy that in areas formerly the exclusive domain of human endeavor
such as Chess and Jeopardy computers are now dominant.

Previous related post _
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=17281&...

.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
AndersHoveland
Hazard to Other Members, due to repeated speculation and posting of untested highly dangerous procedures!
*****




Posts: 1986
Registered: 2-3-2011
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 21-2-2012 at 13:16


The latest technology is attempting to use quantum interference phenomena over fiber optic networks to send instantaneous messages (faster than the speed of light), and quantum computers to instantly process the information and place orders. In the fast-pace automated world of stock market high-volume trade algorithms, even a few seconds can give a competitive advantage and large profits. The commercial fiber optic devices necessary for quantum entanglement are rapidly developing.
http://www.mendeley.com/research/quantum-mechanics-and-faste...
http://www.ejtp.com/articles/ejtpv5i18p105.pdf

Masahiro Hotta at Tohoku University in Japan has even proposed that energy, in addition to information, can be teleported through quantum entanglement.

Basically, it would work something like this:
Points A, B, and C
A laser beam is passed through a beam splitter at point B. Normally there would be an equal chance of going in either direction to points A and C. However, if the beam will eventually undergo destructive interference at point C, then the beam (or in practice, a greater portion of the beam) will all be directed at towards point A instead. Destructive interfence at a distant point in a future time shifts the probability at the beam splitter, because the law of conservation of energy must be conserved (there are indeed other ways the energy could potentially be dissipitated but these have negligible probabilities). So depending on the observations at point A, an observer could theoretically determine the setup at the distant point C, whether or not the beam would be undergoing destructive interference. This destructive interference could be achieved, for example, by simply passing the incoming beam through another beam splitter, then redirecting the split beams towards eachother out of phase. Energy is not destroyed, rather probabilities are shifted.

The law of conservation of energy, and the phenomena of interference, together combined, imply forbiden possibilities on uncertainty, with respect to the future. This phenomena would seem to go against convential conceptions of the one-way linear "cause" and "effect". It may well be that there is merely a relationship between the present and future, that the present is in a way actually determined by the future.

Obviously point C would be designed so that the incoming beam would have a neglibible probability of being reflected back (perhaps using non-reflective optics), and so that the optics could be switched for phase alignment. The idea being that the observer at point A instantly knows what the optional alignment is at point C.

[file]17628[/file]

[Edited on 21-2-2012 by AndersHoveland]

fasterlightbeamsplitter.gif - 10kB
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
franklyn
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2579
Registered: 30-5-2006
Location: Da Big Apple
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 24-2-2012 at 02:37


Previously posted here _
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=17281&...
the link has lapsed , the updated links are below.

Barrons round table discussion and forecast of 2012

Part I
http://online.barrons.com/article/SB500014240527487035359045...

Part II
http://online.barrons.com/article/SB500014240527487038797045...

Part III
http://online.barrons.com/article/SB500014240527487035120045...

___________________________________________________


The world is in a bidding war to the bottom with each major currency
relentlessly expanding it's own money supply , which in part explains
the price hike of stocks. European Central Bank will be expanding the
Euro by another trillion or so at the end of February , Weeeee.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/46477139
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/ecb-preparing-close-liquidity-...
The other reason is favorable foreign exchange
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-what-happens-when-p...

You are traveling through another dimension , not only of sight and
sound , but of mind , the sign post up ahead , 4 σ .

# " The stock market as measured by the S&P 500 (SPY) has been up
in nearly 70% of the trading days since mid-December { better than
two to one } which is a daily win percentage that is + 4 standard
deviations above normal " !

Four Sigma marks the 99.994 th percentile , at odds of one in 16,000
of occuring , the current run up is what could be expected to happen
once in 2,700 years of Stock market trading. Is everyone feeling lucky ?

# http://seekingalpha.com/article/377721-beware-the-honey-badg...

.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
bquirky
National Hazard
****




Posts: 315
Registered: 22-10-2008
Location: Perth Western Australia
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 24-2-2012 at 05:21


[rquote]http://www.mendeley.com/research/quantum-mechanics-and-fasterthanlight-communication-methodological-considerations/
http://www.ejtp.com/articles/ejtpv5i18p105.pdf
[/rquote]

I have attached the first referenced paper for convenience
and the original optical setup diagram from the pdf

Whilst i am in no position _whatsoever_ to offer an educated critique on any aspect of theoretical quantum mechanics I can only make the following practical observations from messing about with similar optical setups.

The energy that goes 'missing' during destructive interferance in the 'transmiter' interfarometer dosnt really go missing it can be found nearby, litteraly! if your detector is a single point detector and you have matched your path lengths absolutly perfectly and managed to get your detector to a near zero reading the detector is now sitting in the dark spot of a 2d fringe patern the energy that is missing is sitting in a bright spot out of the detectors feild of view. evan in single mode fiber sytems there is still a spacial energy distribution within the beam as it hits the detector. or the space next to the detector.

The other efect that can been seen in a setup like this is that the energy can be spectraly redistributed. like you see spatially in light/dark fringe paterns in space, Energy from one wavelength can be 'lost' and seemingly redistributed to a different wavelength. (how exactly this happens on a single photon level i have _NO _ idea at all) the resulting spectrum looks like a modulated carrier wave.


The other problem i have (at least with the proposed setup in the pdf document) is that in my own very limited first hand experience when optical systems are setup with a source split into two beem paths and one path sent to a interfraometer and another sent off somewhere else (as in this diagram and this allso happens by chance to quite closely match a system that ive been working on today)using run of the mill detection teqneuqes (power, spectrum, polorisation etc) no observable effects can be found on the second beam labeled 'receiver' in this diagram No matter what you do to the interfarometer that is running off the first beam. so much so that you can put a photodetector on the 2nd beam and use it to mesure noise from the source so you can then subtract that noise from the interfarometer signal


Whilst im certainly not saying that FDL communications is impossible im unconvinced that the methods presented in that paper are the way to achieve it.

There are comercal quantum encryption systems that transmit shared keys using entangled photons. But as far as i know the actual encrypted information is still sent traditionally


allso I wouldn't worry about people using FDL coms for trading. it makes much more sense just to put your compuer system in the same building as the exchange. and I believe this is exactly what happens http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2008/09/04/stock...



... It seems a science discussion may have broken out in a political thread quick call a moderator :)


[file]17649[/file]

Attachment: fulltext.pdf (693kB)
This file has been downloaded 79 times

interfraometer.jpg - 19kB
View user's profile View All Posts By User
AndersHoveland
Hazard to Other Members, due to repeated speculation and posting of untested highly dangerous procedures!
*****




Posts: 1986
Registered: 2-3-2011
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 24-2-2012 at 08:27


The energy will be shifted away from where it would destructively interfere towards all other possible alternatives. So, for example, in the "double slit" experiment, the white bands will become more bright because the light has been shifted away from the dark bands, where it would have destructively interfered.

The interesting phenemona is what happens when the destructive inteference occurrs at a very distant point, or even in the future! The energy distribution shift must occurr at the beam splitter if there is not any alternative options available near the distant point (or at least if the options available have neglible probabilities).
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
franklyn
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2579
Registered: 30-5-2006
Location: Da Big Apple
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 25-2-2012 at 00:55


http://www.bloomberg.com/video/87093648

http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/24/news/economy/double_dip_rece...

.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
497
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 778
Registered: 6-10-2007
Member Is Offline

Mood: HSbF6

[*] posted on 25-2-2012 at 13:49


A couple comments posted in the above zerohedge article:

""The ECB expects governments to take responsibility for banks that prove too weak to help with extra liquidity and believes states should step in if, in three years when the funding term comes to an end, they are incapable of repaying the credit."

oh, he really is a sonofabitch, but he is smart, our sonofabitch Draghi. I am starting to like him...

so the ECB is not the lender of last resort, it's only the provisional lender of last resort and all the european parties can just start to put their thinking caps on about what to do with the banks (obvious: nationalize) after the next election rounds.."

" The Sovietunion of Europe, planned and managed out of Brussels steps closer to realization every day!"

It does sort of look like that is the direction it could go, but after more thought I am just left in awe that the most efficient method of wholesale invasion of the government by bankers and corporations could so easily be justified as "nationalizing." Is that not one of the easiest ways of transferring an entire industry from unofficially part of the gov't to officially part of the gov't?




A word to the wise: NEUROFEEDBACK

http://citizenworks.org/corp/dg/s2r1.pdf
http://www.newscientist.com/mobile/article/mg21228354.500-re...
http://www.shadowstats.com/article/no-414-hyperinflation-spe...

"To expose a 15 Trillion dollar ripoff of the American people by the stockholders of the 1000 largest corporations over the last 100 years will be a tall order of business."
Buckminster Fuller

"No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it."
Albert Einstein
View user's profile View All Posts By User
anotheronebitesthedust
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 189
Registered: 24-6-2007
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 25-2-2012 at 17:28


Quote: Originally posted by franklyn  
" Socialism is great until you run out of other people's money. "
- Margaret Thatcher


I think a big problem with socialism is that by raising the standards of living for poor people, it actually lowers the standards of living for middle class and rich people. In other words, if everyone is rich, no one is rich.

So I think here are some better quotes:

"Socialism is great until the rich realize they are not so rich."
"Socialism is great until everybody realizes their money is not worth as much."
View user's profile View All Posts By User
AndersHoveland
Hazard to Other Members, due to repeated speculation and posting of untested highly dangerous procedures!
*****




Posts: 1986
Registered: 2-3-2011
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 25-2-2012 at 18:50


Here is a thought: If everyone else in the world was a stunningly beautiful young female, would you care about the rest of the world more? Would you be more willing to be taxed to ensure the welfare of everyone else?

I believe the answer is yes, without a doubt.
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
franklyn
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2579
Registered: 30-5-2006
Location: Da Big Apple
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 27-2-2012 at 09:05


Now children , play nice





http://blogs.wsj.com/eurocrisis/2012/02/23/qa-ecb-president-...


Selected comments read at zerohedge today

The world is now running out of ideas how to even kick the can down the road.
The G20 at their summit in Mexico was its normal complete waste of time and
airfares. The group agreed to do nothing about anything, but did offer up some
nice platitudes about how well the world economy seemed to be doing.
{ That's like commenting how healthy the maggots look on a dead corpse }

Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos told the Greek Parliament that a significant
number of lawmakers have moved sums in excess of 100,000 euros out of the
country. Venizelos told fellow ministers that there are several Greek public figures
who transferred a total of 16 billion euros abroad over the last two years. An MP
had transferred 1 million euros out of the country in May as authorities were
struggling to appease Greek citizens’ fears of the repercussions of a possible
default on their savings. { Well that should build confidence }

________________________________________________


From the wikipedia biography
Joseph P. Kennedy, Sr. knew the rampant stock speculation of the late 1920s
would lead to a crash. It is said that he knew it was time to get out of the market
when he received stock tips from a shoe-shine boy. Kennedy survived the crash
" because he possessed a passion for facts, a complete lack of sentiment and a
marvelous sense of timing ". During the Great Depression Kennedy vastly increased
his financial fortune by investing most of it in real estate. In 1929, Kennedy's fortune
was estimated to be $4 million ( equivalent to $54.1 million today ). By 1935, his
wealth had increased to $180 million ( equivalent to $3.05 billion today )
- In just five years it multiplied over 40 times


Regardless what the pimps and shills in the financial media insist on telling you.
- THERE IS NO RECOVERY !
Annual new home sales / sold data, which came in at meaningless 321K in
January on expectations of 315K, and a meaningless drop from an upward
revised 324K, all this shows is that 3 years after the " recovery ", there is
still zero improvement in housing.

[file]17742[/file]


If you believe this is a sound basis for bidding up the price of stocks
you deserve to get taken.


[Edited on 28-2-2012 by franklyn]

Annual Housing Sales.gif - 23kB
View user's profile View All Posts By User
anotheronebitesthedust
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 189
Registered: 24-6-2007
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 27-2-2012 at 14:01


Quote: Originally posted by AndersHoveland  
Here is a thought: If everyone else in the world was a stunningly beautiful young female, would you care about the rest of the world more? Would you be more willing to be taxed to ensure the welfare of everyone else?
Whether the rest of the world are beautiful young women or newborn babies doesn't matter. Neocon creeps will still use economic terrorism to enslave them, and false flag attacks to invade the ones that don't bow down. And if you pay taxes to the US gov. you would still be supporting it.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
franklyn
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2579
Registered: 30-5-2006
Location: Da Big Apple
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 28-2-2012 at 08:51


http://www.cnbc.com/id/46552130

________________________________________________

Quote: Originally posted by Polverone  
Quote: Originally posted by franklyn  
@ Polverone , I would say they put their money to work ten times harder.
There is no proportional correlation between personal erudition or intellect , and
earning. It has nothing to do with merit and everything to do with ability to prosper
by ones wits. Labor being a commodity is subordinate to market demand and
changing fortune. Entrepreneurship and enterprise as modest as street vending
and peddling are routes available to better yourself in the less developed countries.
The self made man or woman is literally that , prosperity is never an entitlement.
Mediocre individuals seek to serve , successful people seek to be served by them.
Political leaders are that embodiment.


Is there a non-tautological definition of these prosperity-bringing wits that explains such huge income gaps between the 50th and 99th percentiles, after "hours worked," "intensity of work," and "investment in skills and education" have all been tested and found wanting?

As a description of the way things are, I basically agree with you. People with money make their money work harder; "them as has, gits." I disagree that such an arrangement is desirable. As money itself does not actually pave roads, harvest crops, manufacture cars, discover medicines, or fill any other job, the well-off getting their money to work harder really means getting everyone else to work harder to the benefit of the well-off.

If living at the 99th percentile of income has nothing to do with merit then merit also has nothing to do with living at the 50th percentile. If there is no merit to great success or its absence, workers stuck at the 50th percentile are not dregs, merely people running on a tilted playing field. If middle income workers politically support changing the rules of the game, it's simple turnabout : pitting their wits against the wits of the 1%.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
GreenD
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 615
Registered: 30-3-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: Totally f***ing high, man!

[*] posted on 28-2-2012 at 09:26


You realize all of this is just childs play? Graphs and new vocab, all used to make it seem so complicated.

The underlying idea of economics and all this shit is simple, and it is easy to see it is unsustainable.

Money from nothing, creating debt from nothing, no representation. Money is just an idea now, and increasingly more abstract as we lose even the paper currency and go electronic.

Whos to say this shit can't be completely opaque by then?

Group finds 150 companies rule the world;
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354.500-revealed-...

I believe the only way out of this shit is to remove compound interest; making it completely illegal. Interest itself, such as savings & debt on credit should also be removed. Interest in investments and other "real"-based interest is logical, the prior are simply asking for a collapse.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
AndersHoveland
Hazard to Other Members, due to repeated speculation and posting of untested highly dangerous procedures!
*****




Posts: 1986
Registered: 2-3-2011
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 28-2-2012 at 09:51


Quote: Originally posted by GreenD  

I believe the only way out of this shit is to remove compound interest; making it completely illegal. Interest itself, such as savings & debt on credit should also be removed. Interest in investments and other "real"-based interest is logical, the prior are simply asking for a collapse.


It is not that simple.

I believe that one of the most important solutions is a land value and natural resource based tax, which should be applied based not just on "ownership", but by equity. If the banks have made so many loans that they control half the equity of the residential/commercial properties, they should be paying half the land value tax. Because if an individual "owns" property, but still has to make mortgage payments on that property, he does not truely own it.

And the real owners are not really the banks themselves, but the stockholders of and investors in these banks. By the mere act of putting money into a bank, one is in fact becoming an indirect owner of everything the bank has invested in or holds a mortgage on.

[Edited on 28-2-2012 by AndersHoveland]
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
GreenD
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 615
Registered: 30-3-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: Totally f***ing high, man!

[*] posted on 28-2-2012 at 09:55


I think it is easy to lose the forest through the trees when talking about banks & economics.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
franklyn
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2579
Registered: 30-5-2006
Location: Da Big Apple
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 28-2-2012 at 21:14


Just because you're big doesn't mean a thing

Actual radio conversation released by
the Chief of Naval Operations, 10-10-95:

#1: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision.

- #2: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to South to avoid a collision.

#1: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course.

- #2: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course.

#1. THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER ENTERPRISE, WE ARE A LARGE WARSHIP OF THE US NAVY.
. . . . DIVERT YOUR COURSE NOW !

- #2. This is a U.S Coastguard lighthouse. Your call.

__________________________________________

Damn the iceburgs full speed ahead !

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-year-living-dangerously

http://seekingalpha.com/article/398291-central-banks-bet-the...

__________________________________________


More News ( commentary ) of the world.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9113175/E...

" Across Europe hundreds of banks open their doors every day only because
of Mr Draghi’s intervention. These lenders may look like banks, call themselves
banks, and, to their customers, feel like banks, but they are in reality wards of
the ECB, going through the motions of banking. These banks can make little
impact on the real economy, and their main purpose in life is merely to survive
and maintain the status-quo. They cannot afford to make loans and be the
agents of Europe’s economic recovery as they remain too bloated with
uncollectable debt and are, to all intents and purposes, insolvent. Be under no
doubts, the European banking system remains broken at its core. The Long Term
Refinancing Operation is merely a full body plaster cast hiding the cadaver inside."

- Is somebody yanking our chain ?
Apple which was worth just $400 billion last month topped $500 billion today Feb 29
which means it's now worth more than the five largest U.S. banks combined. It's got
a ways to go to better Microsoft which at the top 12 years ago , was worth as much
as the combined current worth of gold in the New York Federal Reserve ( $380 billion )
and the U.S. Treasury's Fort Knox ( $250 billion ) . Are you still feeling lucky ?

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2010/fortune/1002/gallery.big...

More ' big ' winners
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2010/fortune/1002/gallery.big...


[Edited on 1-3-2012 by franklyn]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
franklyn
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2579
Registered: 30-5-2006
Location: Da Big Apple
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 3-3-2012 at 02:52


Some very insightful analysis of what 2012 may bring.
If you read nothing else read this ! or listen to it see below

The meat and potatos starts about a quarter of the way in after
the initial pleasantries. Read the transcript here _
http://www.chrismartenson.com/page/transcript-erik-townsend
or listen to the dialog here ~ 52 min long
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqcPe-ZBQdk

A selection of abridged excerpts

Erik Townsend:
I think something that I have seen that nobody seems to be talking about is, I think China has quite a bit of pull here. In that as QE happens—and I am convinced it is going to happen sometime this year, I do not know when—it is going to export so much inflation to China that it is going to be almost intolerable for them. And I think that we are forgetting that if China says, “Okay, guys, we have had enough of this. If you do any more QE-ing we are going to dump the US Treasury bonds that we are holding and we are going to use the money to save our own economy.” If we see that kind of reaction from China, it really could put a monkey wrench into the plans of the central banks to inflate this all away. I think that whether it is that mechanism or another one, at some point we are going to get to a hard wall here where you cannot just print money forever without the unintended consequences coming back and biting you. I just described one mechanism that might cause the unintended consequence to create a feedback loop that comes back and bites the central banks so they have to stop what they are doing, changing everything. Now that might not happen, but there are a dozen others that you can think of in terms of mechanisms that might cause a sudden stop in quantitative easing. And if that happens, we are really going to see a roller coaster ride in the economy.

Chris Martenson:
The Russell 2000, just a percent or two away from all-time highs—it is up 38 percent this year—it is up like this huge amount over the past year—and would you know it, money flows from retail investors have been negative every single month through that entire run. What is going on? Because normally the retail investors are piling in or they have been piling in or they are providing some of that fuel. Not only have they not been providing fuel, they have been subtracting fuel from that. Who is buying the rusty [13:15]? We have all these people selling, who are the retail investors. It means the market is no longer really made up, I guess, or is sensitive to the retail investors. And, and how do you, how do you interpret that information ?

Erik Townsend:
You know, I do not pretend to understand how it all works. I think the agenda here is all about propping up markets and general sentiment in the country in advance of the election. And I think the big thing that they seem to be wrestling with, if you cannot quite please all the people all the time, there is no good way to prop up the markets by printing money and just putting – printing government money to put a bid under everything. Because if you do that, you blow oil prices through the roof and that is going to cripple the economy. Okay. We need a scapegoat for the oil prices. Let us get ready to do something. We are going to get ready to rumble with Iran here. We are going to make them the bad guy somehow for the fact that oil prices are going up.

I see an overall agenda that is about propping up markets, however it is that they do it. But I think that the strategy of whoever is pulling the strings on these puppets, is if we can get to a new all-time high on the Dow, which is only about 9 percent away from where it is right now today. We will be able to lure retail back into the stock market and we can maybe get another bump from there. It will all come crashing down at some point when the macro kicks in and people get in touch with reality again. But if we can somehow prop things up just a little further, we can get retail suckers back into the market.

At some point, though, I think that Europe comes back and finally blows up on us. Maybe that will not be until next year. As much as I am absolutely resolute that there is no solution to any real problem and can be no solution, there are plenty of ways that you can paper this over and do a Band-Aid fix that lasts a few more months. And I think they will probably continue doing that through most of 2012.

Iran is another story and my gut on Iran is that it, at this point is a strategic tool. They know they are going to fight with Iran at some point. They know that Obama is not going to win the election in November with hundred and fifty dollar oil prices and seven dollar gasoline if it comes to that unless there is a good scapegoat. So everybody can feel like the President is doing the right thing—in order to fix this problem, that people that do not look like us, created it. It must be all Iran’s fault!

What if the purpose of the new debt was to rearrange who has the debt, who is holding the debt, and what form it is being held in so that we can have a major unprecedented round of changing the rules to re – essentially to redistribute wealth in a way that would have been previously unheard-of. Well, look at as an example what happened to civil rights in the United States since 9-11 with – between the Patriot Act and FISA and the HIRE Act, now in NDAA where you have the government giving the essentially unlimited authority to lock people up, throw away the key without ever pressing charges. Your right to trial by jury and speedy trial and confrontation of your accuser. All that stuff is out the window. Forget the Constitution. We are making new rules because we have got to fight terrorism. Well, look at the magnitude of the macro-event, the major global economic dislocations that you and I both see on the horizon. If 9-11, which was two buildings, and a few thousand people losing their lives, could allow us to throw out our Constitution. Then I think a mini- or macro- a major global economic dislocation could easily allow us to throw out the rule of contract law and simply say, governments are in charge of redefining who has all the wealth, who has the assets. This whole thing is going to get reset and we are going to go to a global currency while we do that. If your agenda was to cause that big picture outcome over the next few years, wouldn’t you want to be redefining the debt and put more of the debt off of the private books and onto the public books where the government has more direct control over what the terms and conditions of those instruments are?

Chris Martenson:
if the Fed is holding a trillion Europe bonds and the Europeans are holding a trillion US bonds and they both just wink at each other and cancel them off their books, what just happened ? My point is that once a central bank takes an asset onto its books, it – there is really nothing, that says it has to then get it back off its books by selling it into the open market. It can just let it expire there, if it wants to. And what just happened? Nothing. The money stays out in the economy and the bad debt or, even if it is not a bad debt, whatever debt it was, just went away. It is entirely possible to have these bad assets go into central bank vaults, if you will, onto their balance sheet and just evaporate there and disappear. What happened to the Bear Sterns books that the Fed took on ? And the Maiden Lane ? They have just been winding that stuff down. I do not know what is happening to it. But it has just sort of been evaporating off of the – like sublimating off of the Federal Reserve balance sheet.

Erik Townsend:
that is exactly where I see this all going, is the, the cronyism is going to continue. The people who are best connected are going to have their interests protected through fairly complex and unobvious mechanisms that allow the government to take the debt out of the private sector, the bad debt that should stay there where people should be punished for having made those bad loans in the first place. They are going to come off scot-free and ultimately it is the middle class and the taxpayer that are going to eat the cost of this. And it will happen in very complex and unobvious ways so that most people cannot figure out what happened to them.

________________________________________________


The treasury department establishing the norm of negative interest rates ,
prompted this remark from a skeptic.

" we wonder, when will Apple, start charging its shareholders for the privilege
of owning its stock ? "

.

[Edited on 3-3-2012 by franklyn]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
franklyn
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2579
Registered: 30-5-2006
Location: Da Big Apple
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 5-3-2012 at 07:24


http://seekingalpha.com/article/409401-coming-week-market-mo...

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2012/03/02/russell-2000...

Deja vu
From now on things will get interesting. This week may stir the markets some
but do not expect cataclysm, yet. The G20 have likely shored up the weakest
links so that a cascade of dominoes will not occur, this time. The week following
this week may well see things pick up again as before. All the vicissitudes remain.
Remember the past if you do not wish to repeat it.

Deja vu
Bold talk from street pushers on Tuesday 9, September 2008
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=849887544
Three weeks later it became a Olympic ski jump event.
http://tinyurl.com/6vdzsek

It's a long way down , in 2008 it took two months to reach a low

Oh boy
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/iifs-doomsday-memorandum-revea...

.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Rosco Bodine
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 5284
Registered: 29-9-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: analytical

[*] posted on 5-3-2012 at 12:17
the great paper money fiat currency scam


Forty years ago an automobile cost 10% what is the cost for an equivalent vehicle today.......10% ....one tenth.....
and a similar story applies to many other tangible goods having real value, while currency value manipulation by government and banks has continued along its merry way, with the general trend being of course currency devaluation. It is something like athropogenic queer paper proliferation or AQPP accomplished by government mints pee peeing fiat currency in whatever quantity yellow river of pee pee money is deemed to meet their government needs while pissing on every savings account holder on earth who are every one them "taxed" by the robbery accomplished by currency devaluation.....which is a de facto breached contract with "the people".

The suggestion which I have made and reiterate is that not only the U.S. dollar, but all currency worldwide should have a fixed value assigned to it as a bearer bond redeemable in a certain amount of energy which is fixed by law as the valuation for that "e-bill" or energy bearer bond. This would stop the crooked and rigged monopoly game which has been played for centuries by governments and banks using fiat currency as the "coin of the realm" which really is no coin at all on planet earth. We all understand the relationship of energy consumption to the lives of people who live in an industrialized world. Like billions of energy hungry vampires we require energy for sustaining our lives.
Energy is the lifeblood of industrialized society..... and that is a fact. Therefore, energy is consequently the de facto medium of basic barter and exchange, the fundamental and essential thing, the commodity and consumable which makes everything go and makes everything work. Is there anything else more fundamental conceivable as an essential commodity basis for mercantile exchange, useful for trade for other goods and services....than bearer bonds for energy having fixed valuation and face value correlated to X amount of kilowatt hours, or X gallons of Octane, or X BTU's, ect. ? Wouldn't it put a swift end to the currency devaluation and at the same time put the financial reality of an honest "new world order" squarely upon the issuers of "currency" at the same time identifying them as the de facto producers of energy which they already are.......behind the present facade of private corporations. Such private corporations as have been for so long so regulated and so intertwined financially with government have long been de facto cartel partnerships which are neither distinctly private enterprise nor government enterprise but are in fact both. Why not declare such enterprise what it is and stop scamming the population of the world about the reality of what exists?

To reaffirm the appropriate quote and name drop an endorsement for the late Andrew Breitbart who was very possibly murdered to silence his own expressions of similar perspicacity ......
"Righteous Indignation: Excuse me while I save the world."

An audio clip from an audio version of the book is linked here

http://www.audiobooksdownload.com/Books/BK_HACH_000606.htm

http://samples.audible.com/bk/hach/000606/bk_hach_000606_sam...

And here

http://www.amazon.com/Righteous-Indignation-Excuse-While-Wor...



[Edited on 5-3-2012 by Rosco Bodine]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
GreenD
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 615
Registered: 30-3-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: Totally f***ing high, man!

[*] posted on 5-3-2012 at 12:52


Who said industrialized society is the way to go?



ʃ Ψ*Ψ
Keepin' it real.
Check out my new collaborated site: MNMLimpact.com
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Rosco Bodine
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 5284
Registered: 29-9-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: analytical

[*] posted on 5-3-2012 at 13:18


Certainly not stoners on bicycles but then they are just a few fries short of having a full happy meal
View user's profile View All Posts By User
GreenD
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 615
Registered: 30-3-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: Totally f***ing high, man!

[*] posted on 5-3-2012 at 13:22


Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  
Certainly not stoners on bicycles but then they are just a few fries short of having a full happy meal


Just sayin man. Industrialization brings some nice creature comforts, but of course it has its draw backs, psychologically and physically. Not everything is so black and white.




ʃ Ψ*Ψ
Keepin' it real.
Check out my new collaborated site: MNMLimpact.com
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Rosco Bodine
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 5284
Registered: 29-9-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: analytical

[*] posted on 5-3-2012 at 13:33


The general situation I described absolutely is precisely so black and white. Do everyone a favor in this thread and don't troll this thread with your drivel about what you view as some Marxist utopian wet dream of a world you conceived through the aid of an LSD experience hobbling your mind of a vegetarian bicyclist ....as you did in the Say Goodbye to GW thread. Your variety of surreal philosophy and ideology is absolutely not realistic or sane by any honest standard of scrutiny. It is only some subversive and perverse countercultural garbage which is inconsistent with realities of life in a world you think you can wish to become your own idea of heaven on earth, which would not be any heaven on earth to most people, though it would suit just fine your own idea as some materialization of your fantasy or hallucination.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
GreenD
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 615
Registered: 30-3-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: Totally f***ing high, man!

[*] posted on 5-3-2012 at 13:35


Damn rosco - you been reading the dictionary? Your vocab has expanded considerably in the past week.

My point is: stop playing god and telling everyone that industrialization is the promised land.




ʃ Ψ*Ψ
Keepin' it real.
Check out my new collaborated site: MNMLimpact.com
View user's profile View All Posts By User
 Pages:  1  ..  15    17    19  ..  44

  Go To Top