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Author: Subject: Exploitation of the global economy, the coming collapse
watson.fawkes
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[*] posted on 4-11-2012 at 07:32


Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  
Show one Congressionally approved operating budget for the U.S. ...show just one of those budgets which are required by law [...]
Your "data" is misleading and incorrect. It is disinformation.
For someone who claims "Math" as an advantage to your side, you're conflating budgets and debt, two things even a high school bookkeeping student can easily distinguish. Total debt numbers are published by the Bureau of Public Debt, a part of the Treasury Department. This bureau publishes the Schedules of Federal Debt; the link has PDF versions of these reports with data back to 1997. Previous years were published on paper; I don't if they've been scanned. The Bureau of Public Debt's reports are audited by the GAO (General Accounting Office), which is not a trivial thing. (Aside: Much of the problem with Greece's public debt is that their equivalent reports were somewhere between incorrect and fraudulent, so that market discipline was not working for several years). The point is that Federal debt numbers are completely non-controversial.

Also see Wikipedia History of the United States public debt, which examines these numbers and more.

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[*] posted on 7-11-2012 at 20:43


Election: My immediate reaction was : Obama? Oh, bugger!

But really all it means is more of the SOS. At least he got the majority of the popular vote. None of that electoral college nonsense, thank god.

>To the two republicans who managed to lose seats in senate races by their stone age religious views, namely Mourdock and Akins – I suggest they emigrate to some Islamic country where such views are popular. The electorate very rightly rejected them out of hand.

The Republicans need to get religion out of their politics. I got a call yesterday from the RNC (a computer call, which have been plaguing us all campaign) saying something negative about Obama and religion – it decided me it was pointless to vote, since a vote for Obama was impossible. Add to that the fact that the items on the Florida list stretched three pages, and some people had a 4 hour wait after the polls closed. “Democracy” run riot – you are asked to vote for the official janitor for the local council here.

The fiscal cliff beckons. See Rosco’s video posted on 5-11-2012 at 21:57 for a visualization of the rush of the Gadarene swine…
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=22122

Major indices of the stock market say it all – down 2.8%. A bit better than last time Obama was elected – it was about -5% then. And that time he was the only feasible choice aginst Aging McCain and Bimbo Palin.

Get your act in order, Republicans (or I’ll have to consider moving to Chile).
Der Alte
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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 7-11-2012 at 21:49


@DerAlte You get no argument from me about the RINO "teavangelical" extremists sabotage of the party platform with a non-sequitur constitutional issue that is settled law. I understand the conscientious objections and share some of those in a rationally qualified way ....but never have the wrong idea that most conservatives or most republicans share those zealots views. 3 million people who voted for McCain simply sat out this election in disgust and millions more moderates broke left because of the dumb and unyielding pseudoecclesiastical views of the RINOS led by the biggest RINO that ever came down the pike. Those zealots would rather be true to their principles and try to shove them down anybody else throat and lose an election that was important than to "compromise" their agenda which was never going anywhere except in their own fanatsy. I tried to tell them that the plank was a hole in the bottom of the boat and would cause a Harper Valley PTA blowback effect from all the Mrs. Johnson and daughter voters out there who would be 1 in 5 of the votes cast and would be responding to the insult and offensiveness of zealots. You don't win the votes of those you insult and offend but zealots don't care. So now we got SOS for another 4 just like you have said. If the real republicans don't get rid of the RINOS and teavangelicals as decision makers they can't win the independent and moderates who will rebel against those fanatics. That crew is as extremist in its own way as is the extremists in the other direction on the left. Anyway according to 51% fiscal insanity is the new normal ..who needs an effin budget ...yes we can and all that forward thinking stuff . The stock market did a long fart in what may be a flatulent commentary on the election results. The "carbon credit crew" thinks money grows on trees, and the debt is just pennies from heaven. With such masterminds in charge how could the stock market not be exhilarated with a sense of well being and euphoria ?
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DerAlte
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[*] posted on 8-11-2012 at 12:22


@Rosco
We are on the same wavelength. Wasteland to the left and right of us, conservatives lost in the trackless desert, a dwindling race. Far too late, Romney realized he had been preaching to the choir instead of the congregation. That is, if you could hear whatever message he was trying to put across. All I heard from the TV adverts was how damn bad the other guy(s) was (were). A disgusting performance on both sides, wasting enough unproductive money to keep a 3rd world nation afloat for six months.

And, since many automatically vote a straight ticket due to the length and complexity of the ballot, as the leader goes so goes the party. Thus, SOS, only slightly worse.

I take solace we are not alone, except many of the following are now deceased:

“The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.” Mark Twain

“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. ” Margaret Thatcher

“When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads.” Ron Paul

“The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.” Tacitus, The Annals of Imperial Rome

“Lord, the money we do spend on Government and it's not one bit better than the government we got for one-third the money twenty years ago.” Will Rogers

“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.” Edward R. Murrow


….. and sadly, old Thomas Jefferson realized ages ago:
“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.”

Regards, Der Alte
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497
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[*] posted on 9-11-2012 at 07:50


Congratulations all!

Its only been just a over a year and this thread now has the most total replies on the forum.

Thanks everyone for contributing. It was a messy, rambling process, but I sure learned a lot! Hopefully it will continue to confuse/infuriate/disturb/enlighten the internet for many years to come (if it lasts that long).




A word to the wise: NEUROFEEDBACK

http://citizenworks.org/corp/dg/s2r1.pdf
http://www.newscientist.com/mobile/article/mg21228354.500-re...
http://www.shadowstats.com/article/no-414-hyperinflation-spe...

"To expose a 15 Trillion dollar ripoff of the American people by the stockholders of the 1000 largest corporations over the last 100 years will be a tall order of business."
Buckminster Fuller

"No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it."
Albert Einstein
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franklyn
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[*] posted on 9-11-2012 at 08:57


http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000127772&play=1
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Vogelzang
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[*] posted on 10-11-2012 at 11:30


http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2012/nov/8/p...

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/grusbf5/good-morning-americ...

http://www.dailyjobcuts.com/





[Edited on 10-11-2012 by Vogelzang]
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Vogelzang
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[*] posted on 10-11-2012 at 12:26


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/09/papa-johns-obamacar...
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AndersHoveland
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[*] posted on 10-11-2012 at 12:57
the huge hidden cost of manipulating interest rates


When a central bank tries to manipulate interest rates, there is a huge hidden cost. Interest rates are set by the market. Just because a central bank issues all the money does not mean they can set interest rates to whatever they want without any extraneous effects. Money represents wealth. If you try to set interest rates to a certain level, there will be unintended consequences.

I have been thinking about this, and have come to the following line of thought. At the most basic level, money represents land, and interest rates represent the rent on that land. If you consider what these central banks hold as their reserve assets to back the money, much of it is equity in residential mortgages - essentially an indirect form of land ownership. Rents are determined by supply and demand. If a central bank attempts to artificially lower interest rates, it will affect the market price of land, not the level of rent. The price of land will go up in proportion to the artificial reduction in interest rate. If buyers can borrow more money at reduced cost, they will bid up the price of land. Of course, it will be the central bank(s) that will hold much of the equity in this land. They are using this equity to back all the new money in circulation.

The central bank can issue as much money as it wants, but where does it get the wealth to this? Even if the interest rate is small, there still has to be an immense transfer of wealth going on because the economy is so huge. The answer, as you no doubt suspected, is inflation.

So think, what would a situation have to look like for there to be the same effects of inflation without an actual devalueing of the money supply? In other words, what is the corresponding effects of inflation on the holding of wealth? Here is the answer: First, the central bank would confiscate a percentage of the money from everyone that held actual paper notes. Second, and a little more difficult to understand, all taxes would be increased and the central bank would now get a portion of these taxes. How is this? Because with reduced value of each note, the quantity of notes collected in taxation increases. Taxpayers need more money to pay their taxes, and the central bank issuing the new money has diverted some of the buying power to itself. (I have discuseed this in more detail in this thread: Inflation Augments Taxation )

The point of this thread is that a central bank setting interest rates has huge economic consequences, and these policies deserve more attention. Monetary policy should not be completely insulated from politics. The policies a central bank pursues will benefit some people and cost others. The effects are just as important as taxation.


How can the Fed Reserve Bank actually change interest rates?
If the Bank lends out more money at below market interest rates, all this money has to come from somewhere, it has to borrow the money, which will drive up interest rates as much as they are trying to lower them. If the Bank tries to change interest rates by buying or selling Treasury bonds, this will just cause inflation/deflation, counteracting the intended effect. The interest rate might change, but the inflation-adjusted interest rate (which is what really matters) will not. The only thing the bank has control over is inflation. Similarly, if the bank reduces lending, it can be viewed that the increase in interest rates come about merely because of the deflationary pressure of this decrease in money supply, and so the inflation adjusted interest rate again will not be changed.

All this should not be surprising; there is no "free lunch". The Fed is just moving money around, from one place to another, and this cannot affect market interest rates. The only influence the Fed has over the economy is inflation, and its combined interplay with government taxation.




I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying lets remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
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franklyn
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[*] posted on 10-11-2012 at 16:04


Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you !
-- Pericles (430 B.C.)

A government big enough to give you everything you want , is strong enough to take everything you have.
-- Thomas Jefferson

In general , the art of government consists of taking as much money as possible from one party of the citizens to give to the other.
-- Voltaire (1764)

Government is the great fiction , through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
-- Frederic Bastiat (1801-1850)

The only difference between a tax man and a taxidermist is that the taxidermist leaves the skin.
-- Mark Twain

The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer (1820 -1903)

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery.
-- Winston Churchill

Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
-- James Bovard, Civil Libertarian (1994)


http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/11/09/banks-disappear-ob...

.

[Edited on 11-11-2012 by franklyn]
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Vogelzang
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[*] posted on 10-11-2012 at 17:18



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ahEhcVW7oQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p5UZMH6jP4


ObummerOwesUs.jpg - 68kB
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12AX7
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[*] posted on 10-11-2012 at 19:05


The Reserve Bank offers loans to banks at a set rate. Given certain regulations limiting who can get a loan and at what rate, a bank can offer loans at whatever rate they wish. A reserve bank has different restrictions, and generally offers the lowest interest rates, originating money from which other banks in turn create their loans at market rates (the difference being pure profit to the bank, at the expense of the signee). As the basic money supply, they have the power to control market forces by setting starting interest rates. Note that the best they can do is simply give the banks money (0% interest). To simulate a negative interest rate (paying the banks for taking loans -- please, take my money!!), they can print more money -- which is where "Quantitative Easing" comes from. Of course, this value is extracted from the entire economy by inflation.

Why banks need a reserve in the first place, I don't know. Back in the olden days, people would deposit money, and they would loan it out. Money comes and goes, and customers get their money when they need it. Too many people loan the same money too many times, though, and you can very quickly get a bank run, everyone (including the loan holders) demanding the withdrawl of their balances. A reserve is nice to cover this (presumably temporary) condition, but making it standard practice is financial socialism. Which really tells me, gold standard notwithstanding, there hasn't been a true new dollar in a century: it's all debt, piled up several times over. Which in turn means we're all (the entire world) indentured slaves for about three generations worth, and that's assuming the economy simply froze until it caught up with itself!

Tim




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franklyn
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[*] posted on 11-11-2012 at 08:04



http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/i-apologize-for-what-youre...

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/11/09/banks-disappear-ob...

http://seekingalpha.com/article/993081-the-time-to-short-u-s...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoTaJfepgo8

This Thursday and Friday I bought TLT January PUTs at $119 strike price.
Bond prices may continue to rise some more yet in the short term but as we
have seen before , not for long. The long term trend of bond prices increasing
continues but it is a jagged road of swing trading the whole way.

.
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497
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[*] posted on 13-11-2012 at 03:40


http://seekingalpha.com/article/251249-investing-in-the-inev...

"Why of course the people don’t want war … But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship … Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

Hermann Goering

Just too easy... How could it not be used as a way out of the increasingly obvious decline?



[Edited on 13-11-2012 by 497]




A word to the wise: NEUROFEEDBACK

http://citizenworks.org/corp/dg/s2r1.pdf
http://www.newscientist.com/mobile/article/mg21228354.500-re...
http://www.shadowstats.com/article/no-414-hyperinflation-spe...

"To expose a 15 Trillion dollar ripoff of the American people by the stockholders of the 1000 largest corporations over the last 100 years will be a tall order of business."
Buckminster Fuller

"No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it."
Albert Einstein
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AndersHoveland
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[*] posted on 13-11-2012 at 04:53


Quote: Originally posted by franklyn  
Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you !
-- Pericles (430 B.C.)

A government big enough to give you everything you want , is strong enough to take everything you have.
-- Thomas Jefferson

In general , the art of government consists of taking as much money as possible from one party of the citizens to give to the other.
-- Voltaire (1764)

Government is the great fiction , through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
-- Frederic Bastiat (1801-1850)


Good quotes. I have some more to add:

"That Socialism would be immediately practicable if an omnipotent and omniscient Deity were personally to descend to take in hand the government of human affairs is incontestable."
— Ludwig Von Mises.

"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess; they always run out of other people's money. It's quite characteristic of them."
— Margaret Thatcher



That being said, I do believe there are appropriate places for government intervention, including state-run businesses in certain industries. But I think the government has to be very careful. Better too little intervention than too much.



[Edited on 13-11-2012 by AndersHoveland]




I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying lets remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
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franklyn
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[*] posted on 13-11-2012 at 11:56


Nothing succeeds like success , nobody has succeded
as well as the multinational banks - at failing. When
failure is rewarded , what else can be expected.

The new paradigm

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-13/guest-post-welcome-...

It is remarkably difficult to make a man understand something
when his salary depends upon his not understanding it
-- Upton Sinclair

Some people say we need a 3rd party.
I just wish we had a second one.
-- Jim Hightower

.
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ScienceSquirrel
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