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Acetic Acid
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smile.gif posted on 19-8-2011 at 07:31
Websites for cheap chemicals?


I realize that different sites price things differently, so I'm looking for websites that carry the cheapest chemicals. Where is it suggested to buy the following and save some money?

Acceptable purity

Ammonium hydroxide 30%?
Potassium hydroxide solid?
Nitric acid 70%?
Phenolphthalein indicator?
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sternman318
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[*] posted on 19-8-2011 at 08:46


try elementalscientific.net
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smaerd
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[*] posted on 19-8-2011 at 08:56


Phenolphtalein can be found at hobby brew stores, usually very cheaply.

Potassium hydroxide is in some kinds of pH down and soap making.

NH4NO3(from instant cold packs) can be added to KOH or NaOH emitting NH3 gas which can be captured into distilled water(any grocery store). Then KNO3/NaNO3 can be distilled with sulfuric(drain cleaner) to give fuming HNO3.

At least, that's been my approach.




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sternman318
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[*] posted on 19-8-2011 at 09:13


Quote: Originally posted by smaerd  


Potassium hydroxide is in some kinds of pH down and soap making.



http://www.homedepot.com/Plumbing-Drain-Openers/h_d1/N-5yc1v...

Its available at Home Depot, and according to the MSDS ( I would double check) it says water and KOH. I havent opened a bottle yet, so I dont know about other impurities

EDIT: http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brand...


[Edited on 19-8-2011 by sternman318]
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MrHomeScientist
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[*] posted on 19-8-2011 at 09:31


Quote: Originally posted by smaerd  
NH4NO3(from instant cold packs) can be added to KOH or NaOH emitting NH3 gas which can be captured into distilled water(any grocery store).


I just tried this the other day actually, and had trouble getting it to work. I assumed the reaction would bubble out NH3 gas which I would then lead into a beaker of water, but nearly all the ammonia remained dissolved in the reaction vessel. I used close to the minimum amount of water required to dissolve both reactants, but the reaction does also produce water. I didn't try it, but I imagine heating the reaction vessel once the reaction is complete would release the rest of the ammonia, to be led to its intended destination.

edit: By the way, I love how that home depot drain cleaner link has this in the description: "Will not harm pipes (pipes sold separately)"

[Edited on 8-19-2011 by MrHomeScientist]
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hkparker
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[*] posted on 19-8-2011 at 09:55


Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist  
I just tried this the other day actually, and had trouble getting it to work.


I have tried this quite a few times without success. I think the trick is heating. For me, all the ammonia stayed in the reaction vessel and sometimes started to pull water back from the collection beaker.

To answer the original question, elemental scientific.




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smaerd
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[*] posted on 19-8-2011 at 10:06


What I did was left the NH4NO3 completely dry, and dissolved the NaOH in a little amount of water as possible. Heat also helps things along. The hardest part is controlling the rate of evolution.

edit - yes elemental scientific or perhaps dudadiesel(for at least some of that).

[Edited on 19-8-2011 by smaerd]




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bob800
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[*] posted on 19-8-2011 at 10:15


Quote: Originally posted by hkparker  
Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist  
I just tried this the other day actually, and had trouble getting it to work.


I have tried this quite a few times without success. I think the trick is heating. For me, all the ammonia stayed in the reaction vessel and sometimes started to pull water back from the collection beaker.


Actually, I've done this reaction before to produce sodium nitrate, and noticed a vigorous bubbling of ammonia (a little too much, as my nose remembers). I was following a NurdRage video, which suggested to first mix the SOLID ammonium nitrate and SOLID sodium hydroxide BEFORE adding any water. THEN, you can add the water (but VERY QUICKLY, as all the ammonia is given off instantly. A pressure-equalizing funnel may be the only way to go if you want to collect the ammonia). Also, since the reaction is extremely exothermic, you may want to add a drying tube to absorb the water vapor.
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Acetic Acid
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[*] posted on 19-8-2011 at 12:40


I did that reaction and got a good whiff of the belched ammonia. However, I probably don't have a good way to route the gas into water, and it would likely be cheaper to just buy the ammonia if that's all I want. :P
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Bolt
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[*] posted on 19-8-2011 at 13:33


I would suggest buying directly from the DEA
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gutter_ca
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[*] posted on 19-8-2011 at 13:38


Quote: Originally posted by Bolt  
I would suggest buying directly from the DEA


THIS.
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Acetic Acid
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[*] posted on 19-8-2011 at 14:21


I HAVE BOUGHT ALL OF MY KILOGRAM AND LITER AMOUNTS OF DANGEROUS DRUGMAKING CHEMICALS FROM THE DEA

no, not really. Please don't ban me :-O
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[*] posted on 20-8-2011 at 09:59


Quote: Originally posted by bob800  

Actually, I've done this reaction before to produce sodium nitrate, and noticed a vigorous bubbling of ammonia (a little too much, as my nose remembers). I was following a NurdRage video, which suggested to first mix the SOLID ammonium nitrate and SOLID sodium hydroxide BEFORE adding any water. THEN, you can add the water (but VERY QUICKLY, as all the ammonia is given off instantly. A pressure-equalizing funnel may be the only way to go if you want to collect the ammonia). Also, since the reaction is extremely exothermic, you may want to add a drying tube to absorb the water vapor.


I did _exactly_ this. And I did see white a bit of vigorous ammonia bubbles. but never did anything collect well in my beaker.

In the end, I bought 500ml of 30% for a couple dollars for elemental.




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Acetic Acid
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[*] posted on 20-8-2011 at 10:25


If I wanted to buy all that stuff in a single order, would I only have to buy the hazmat fee once? Is it possible to buy 3 hazmat items in the same box to save cost? If so, what else should I get besides the nitric acid?
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[*] posted on 20-8-2011 at 11:02


The more you buy the cheaper it is. Chances are if your buying common chemicals you can get them cheaply from amazon or ebay. Rare chemicals that are not found on ebay and amazon due to low demand (the only reason I can think of) must be purchased from hard to find chemical suppliers. Hard to find means not so much business as the amazon and ebay sellers which means higher prices for the chemical and the shipping since they are most likely fully licensed and legal as apposed to ebay users like billythec. An example of buying in bulk.

10 grams for 10 dollars per gram $100
25 grams for 6 dollars per gram $150
100 grams for 2 dollars per gram $200
500 grams for 1 dollars per gram $500
1000 grams for .75 dollars per gram $750
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[*] posted on 20-8-2011 at 11:59


Elemental shipped all of my chemicals in the same box, but I only had two hazardous ones. They will ship up to three hazardous items per box. You should also buy some 30% peroxide (although you already have it).


Taken from their notice, "Hazardous Chemical Buyers Please Note!" and clarified by asking Elemental directly.

The following items must be shipped hazardous in any quantity and require a $25 hazmat charge in addition to the regular shipping charges. We are able to ship up to three different [hazmat] chemicals in the same box depending on compatibility. [The following three chemicals may be shipped together. I asked.]

Nitric acid
30% Hydrogen Peroxide
Sodium Peroxide

If you are purchasing any of the 24 chemicals listed below in any quantity you will need to add an additional $15 for a poison-pack (EXEMPTION PACK) shipping container and our regular shipping charges. (Note: I asked them and these chemicals do not require a hazmat charge in most cases. Depending on compatibliity, two chemicals from the following list may require different poison-packs. Up to three chemicals may be put in the same exemption pack.)

Ammonium metavanadate
Aniline
Barium Chlorate
Barium Nitrate
Barium Peroxide
Butyric acid
Calcium carbide
Calcium metal
Carbolic acid
Chromic acid
Chromium trioxide
Ethylene dichloride
Lead nitrate
Lithium aluminium hydride
Lithium hydride
Magnesium powder
Mercuric iodide
Mercuric oxide
Phenol crystals
Sodium metal
Trichloroethylene
Vanadium pentoxide
Zinc metal dust

All of the remaining chemicals in the catalog marked with a (*) may require hazardous shipping depending on the quantity ordered. In most cases one or two bottles will not necessitate hazardous shipping. As always if you are in doubt about the shipping cost or requirements please call or email and we will be happy to help. If you should include too much money for an order the extra will be refunded to you.


[Edited on 20-8-2011 by barley81]
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Acetic Acid
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[*] posted on 20-8-2011 at 13:36


Thank you so much for posting that. Yes, I already have a gallon of 27% peroxide as Baquacil pool shock. I wouldn't mind buying more of it at their price. However, I have no intents of ever needing sodium peroxide, and I could get plenty of other good stuff with the 15 dollars. Could I replace the sodium peroxide with another 16oz of nitric acid, and ship h2o2, hno3, and hno3 in the same box? Thanks.
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[*] posted on 20-8-2011 at 14:07


Yes, you can do that, but if you wanted to add any more H<sub>2</sub>O<sub>2</sub> or HNO<sub>3</sub> you would need to pay another hazmat fee. Both chemicals will come in slightly opaque HDPE, so you should store them in a dark, cool place like a cellar to slow decomposition and reaction with the plastic.
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Acetic Acid
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[*] posted on 20-8-2011 at 15:17


Are there any other chemicals that need the 25$ hazmat fee then? Can I include a chemical on the second list in my order without paying the additional $15? Thanks again.
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barley81
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[*] posted on 20-8-2011 at 15:28


The chemicals in the second list must be in exemption packs. I don't know which chemicals that require the exemption pack may or may not require hazardous shipping. For further clarification, you should call Elemental Scientific (for convenience, their number is (920) 882 1277). I am only a customer who has their catalog and ordered once with some questions.

[Edited on 20-8-2011 by barley81]
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Acetic Acid
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[*] posted on 20-8-2011 at 15:30


Thank you for your advice.
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barley81
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[*] posted on 20-8-2011 at 15:34


No problem!
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[*] posted on 23-8-2011 at 11:43


''Potassium hydroxide is in some kinds of pH down and soap making.''


Do a fact check on that;)

But, potassium hydroxide can be bought as a drain opener granules in hardware store, but most of those are sodium ones however.I dont think you need to order it, its arount 10 euros per kilo in europe.

As for ammonium hydroxide, its sold in aquarium stores in 20% solution.

And what goes for nitric acid, i wouldnt order it if i was you.Its used in manufacture of practically every explosive, and i think you might get in trouble if you order it, especially in bulk.Just a heads up:)

edit. problem with quote

[Edited on 23-8-2011 by Roger86]
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[*] posted on 23-8-2011 at 12:55


KOH is used to produce liquid soap, while NaOH is used to make solid bars. Usually crystal drain opener is sodium hydroxide or the original Drano formula (NaNO<sub>3</sub>, NaOH, Al) but potassium hydroxide is used in some liquid drain openers. AAA chemicals has cheap KOH flakes.

[Edited on 23-8-2011 by barley81]
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[*] posted on 23-8-2011 at 14:41


If youre doing the fact check, i was really referring to the PH comment, i always thought KOH increases PH;)
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