MeSynth
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Sodium chloride when using hydrogen chloride
Hi! My question is very simple.
If sodium chloride is dissolved in toluene or ether and then the maximum amount of hydrogen chloride gas is added will the sodium chloride precipitate
out?
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simba
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And who told you sodium chloride will dissolve in ether or toluene?
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peach
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Why would NaCl dissolve in toluene to begin with? Try adding table salt to cooking oil and you'll notice it does not dissolve. Toluene belongs to the
same group of solvents.
Do you mean adding sodium (insoluble in toluene) to the toluene and then gassing it?
If so, yes, it would. Although what'd be more likely to happen is that the lumps of sodium would form sodium chloride on their surface then not do
much.
The hydrogen chloride isn't going to dissolve in the sodium dried toluene very well either.
I'd be interested, genuinely, to know what you were planning to do.
NaCl can be dried out by simply roasting the shit out of it in the open atmosphere. This is a standard chef trick for salt baked fish.
[Edited on 9-10-2011 by peach]
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ThatchemistKid
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I am a little sick at the moment, and maybe not thinking clearly, but I was wondering about electron flow...assumededly the HCl is not ionized in the
toluene to any appreciable extent. Even if it were ionized the sodium would be donating to a chloride Ion I cant really even accept the AO diagram
that is forming in my mind of this ion ....very unikely... The only positive charge lying around would be H+ in this situation and I highly doubt this
reaction goes to sodium hydride (or this 2c 1e specices that this is suggesting). The reason that Na reacts with HCl solution I always imagined was
that it first formed NaOH then that reacted with the HCl... by some Single electron transfer from sodium to a hydrogen of the water giving us a
transient hydrogen radical that then reacted with another H radical an leaving 2Na+ and 2OH-.. which goes on to react with the HCl.this is then
suggesting that if the same thing occured on the Na's surface in the toluene that the Na Would transfer an electron to the Hydrogen of HCl same
mechanism occurs and NaCl solid forms. I do not know, this is all sick delirious speculation and I feel these reactions are much more complicated than
I have made them out to be.
[Edited on 9-10-2011 by ThatchemistKid]
[Edited on 9-10-2011 by ThatchemistKid]
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turd
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Quote: Originally posted by peach  | | NaCl can be dried out by simply roasting the shit out of it in the open atmosphere. This is a standard chef trick for salt baked fish.
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I'm not sure what this thread is about, but note that NaCl is not hygroscopic, so "heating the shit out of it" seems a bit of an overkill. Actually
I'm not aware of any NaCl hydrates. If your chef's table salt cakes, the most likely cause is that there are alkaline earth metal chlorides inside.
And what's that drivel about atomic orbitals? How could Nicodem miss this "gem"? 
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ThatchemistKid
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This drivel about atomic orbitals was me sick and delusional last night, Luckly I am feeling better. I think I was trying to apply a lot of the new
concepts I've been learning in grad school all at once to something that is.. not really related.
also Sodium chloride to my knowledge is hygroscopic.. even a quick wiki search yields this. Sodium chloride is sometimes used as a cheap and safe
desiccant because of its hygroscopic properties.
NaCl crystals are soft and hygroscopic – when exposed to the ambient air they gradually cover with "frost". This limits application of NaCl to dry
environments or for short-term uses such as prototyping.
Probably why NaCl Ir windows are stored in a desiccator huh?
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overload
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| Quote: Originally posted by turd | | Quote: Originally posted by peach | | NaCl can be dried out by simply roasting the shit out of it in the open atmosphere. This is a standard chef trick for salt baked fish.
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I'm not sure what this thread is about, but note that NaCl is not hygroscopic, so "heating the shit out of it" seems a bit of an overkill. Actually
I'm not aware of any NaCl hydrates. If your chef's table salt cakes, the most likely cause is that there are alkaline earth metal chlorides inside.
And what's that drivel about atomic orbitals? How could Nicodem miss this "gem"? |
Isn't that how you make dioxins? I remember reading about dioxins and how they are formed by heating salt to high tempuratures and then combusting
them.
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turd
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Wikipedia is probably confused about the osmotic effects of NaCl solutions used to cure meat. That's not what you call hygroscopic in a chemical
context.
Make a concentrated NaCl solution, place in a warm area and wait. You will get
a) a viscous solution
b) a crystalline NaCl hydrate
c) anhydrous NaCl (cubic crystals, no birefringence)
?
Reapeat with a hygroscopic salt (e.g. CaCl2)
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Nicodem
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What does this thread has to do with organic chemistry? Not that I understand what it is about, but it does not look organic at all. Moving it in the
Beginnings section.
I wasn't either before reading this post a couple of years ago. See also DOI: 10.1107/S0567740874007138 for its structure.
…there is a human touch of the cultist “believer” in every theorist that he must struggle against as being
unworthy of the scientist. Some of the greatest men of science have publicly repudiated a theory which earlier they hotly defended. In this lies their
scientific temper, not in the scientific defense of the theory. - Weston La Barre (Ghost Dance, 1972)
Read the The ScienceMadness Guidelines!
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Nicodem
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Thread Moved
10-10-2011 at 10:51 |
turd
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Nice one! I should have known it.
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woelen
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I can confirm that NaCl is somewhat hygroscopic. The usual free flowing table salt has a very small amount of anti-caking agents added (can be
K4Fe(CN)6, CaCO3 or MgO/MgCO3), 0.01% or so. If you buy reagent NaCl, then you see that it is a hygroscopic solid, it quickly starts caking when
stored in air. Sodium chloride is not so hygroscopic that it liquefies.
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