Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: Preparation of Sodium persulfate
rstar
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 138
Registered: 22-9-2011
Location: Besides valence shell
Member Is Offline

Mood: Dark

thumbup.gif posted on 10-10-2011 at 06:17
Preparation of Sodium persulfate


Hi Geeks,

Currently I don't have access to Na2S2O8.

Does anyone know how to synthesize it ???
I have a related compound Na2SO4 :D can i synthesize Na2S2O8 from it ???




"A tidy laboratory means a lazy chemist "
- Jöns Jacob Berzelius
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
LanthanumK
National Hazard
****




Posts: 298
Registered: 20-5-2011
Location: New Jersey
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 10-10-2011 at 06:36


Electrolytic oxidation? Researching sodium persulfate on Google may help get the specifics.



hibernating...
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
peach
Bon Vivant
*****




Posts: 1428
Registered: 14-11-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 10-10-2011 at 09:00


If it's just a persulphate you're after, ammonium persulphate is sold as "fine etch PCB crystals" at electronics stores.

There's got to be an electronics place in India that sells it.

The crystals are colourless, unlike the older FeCl3 etch crystals which are orange / brown nodules.




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Picric-A
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 796
Registered: 1-5-2008
Location: England
Member Is Offline

Mood: Fuming

[*] posted on 10-10-2011 at 10:56


Potassium persulphate can easily be made from saturated solutions of potassium chloride and ammonium persulphate, the Kpersulfate ppt's right out.

Alternativly if your willing to spent a small fortune- electrolysis of sodium hydrogen sulphate (Na2SO4 + H2SO4) with platinum anode and lead cathode will give a solution sodium persulfate.

K and Na persulphates perform exactly the same as ammonium persulphates
View user's profile View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
AndersHoveland
Hazard to Other Members, due to repeated speculation and posting of untested highly dangerous procedures!
*****




Posts: 1986
Registered: 2-3-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 10-10-2011 at 14:25


Would reacting sodium pyrosulfate with 30% hydrogen peroxide work?

Na2S2O7 + H2O2 --> NaSO5H + NaSO4H ???

Where the NaSO5H is sodium peroxymonosulfate, and the NaSO4H is sodium bisulfate.

Does not sodium peroxymonosulfate have essentially the same chemical reactivity as peroxodisulfate (Na2S2O8), since both are commonly referred to as "persulfate" ?




I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying lets remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
UnintentionalChaos
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1454
Registered: 9-12-2006
Location: Mars
Member Is Offline

Mood: Nucleophilic

[*] posted on 10-10-2011 at 14:32


Quote: Originally posted by AndersHoveland  

Does not sodium peroxymonosulfate have essentially the same chemical reactivity as peroxodisulfate (Na2S2O8), since both are commonly referred to as "persulfate" ?


Not even close. UTFSE.




Department of Redundancy Department - Now with paperwork!

'In organic synthesis, we call decomposition products "crap", however this is not a IUPAC approved nomenclature.' -Nicodem
View user's profile View All Posts By User
AndersHoveland
Hazard to Other Members, due to repeated speculation and posting of untested highly dangerous procedures!
*****




Posts: 1986
Registered: 2-3-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 10-10-2011 at 14:43


Would you care to explain the difference, or point us to a link, since I am having difficulty finding anything pertaining to the differences in reactivity through such a search?

[Edited on 10-10-2011 by AndersHoveland]




I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying lets remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
rstar
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 138
Registered: 22-9-2011
Location: Besides valence shell
Member Is Offline

Mood: Dark

[*] posted on 11-10-2011 at 02:45


Quote: Originally posted by AndersHoveland  
Would reacting sodium pyrosulfate with 30% hydrogen peroxide work?

Na2S2O7 + H2O2 --> NaSO5H + NaSO4H ???


Can this be possible :
Na2S2O7 + H2O2 = Na2S2O8 + H2O ;)




"A tidy laboratory means a lazy chemist "
- Jöns Jacob Berzelius
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
rstar
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 138
Registered: 22-9-2011
Location: Besides valence shell
Member Is Offline

Mood: Dark

[*] posted on 12-10-2011 at 08:12


Quote: Originally posted by Picric-A  

Alternativly if your willing to spent a small fortune- electrolysis of sodium hydrogen sulphate (Na2SO4 + H2SO4) with platinum anode and lead cathode will give a solution sodium persulfate.


Unfortunately I don't have any electrode that is made of Platinum, lead, gold, etc :(

But I do have Carbon electrodes :D, will it work ??




"A tidy laboratory means a lazy chemist "
- Jöns Jacob Berzelius
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Picric-A
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 796
Registered: 1-5-2008
Location: England
Member Is Offline

Mood: Fuming

[*] posted on 12-10-2011 at 08:45


No, the carbon will be oxidised to CO2 very quickly indeed.
View user's profile View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
rstar
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 138
Registered: 22-9-2011
Location: Besides valence shell
Member Is Offline

Mood: Dark

[*] posted on 12-10-2011 at 09:43


Quote: Originally posted by Picric-A  
No, the carbon will be oxidised to CO2 very quickly indeed.


How can it be possible ??
I used Carbon electrodes in making NaOH from NaCl in water, and
for making H2SO4 from CuSO4 in water. It didn't oxidize to CO2, but it did broke into small particles.




"A tidy laboratory means a lazy chemist "
- Jöns Jacob Berzelius
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
ScienceSquirrel
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1863
Registered: 18-6-2008
Location: Brittany
Member Is Offline

Mood: Dogs are pets but cats are little furry humans with four feet and self determination! :(

[*] posted on 13-10-2011 at 03:55


Ammonium, potassium, and sodium persulphates are readily available for etching PCB's.
You can buy half a kilo for a few pounds where I live.
It is unrestricted and as common as chips, I am sure that you can buy it in India

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=persulphate&_sacat...
View user's profile View All Posts By User
peach
Bon Vivant
*****




Posts: 1428
Registered: 14-11-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 10-4-2012 at 13:58


I was moving all the bottles I have on the shelves and noticed my PCB etch is sodium persulphate, rather than ammonium.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
woelen
Super Administrator
*********




Posts: 7743
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: interested

[*] posted on 11-4-2012 at 00:25


@AndersHoveland: Sodium persulfate cannot be made from H2O2 and Na2S2O7 (or NaHSO4). Even stronger, H2O2 and S2O8(2-) ions react with each other, the peroxide reacting as reductor and the peroxodisulfate acting as oxidizer. The products are bisulfate and oxygen.

A nice experiment which demonstrates that peroxodisulfate and peroxide are totally different is to add H2O2 to a precipitate of Ni(OH)2. Nothing happens, the precipitate remains light green. If on the other hand peroxodisulfate is added to a precipitate of Ni(OH)2, then it turns black at once. The resulting black compound is a strong oxidizer, capable even of oxidizing Mn(2+) to MnO4(-), albeit slowly. If H2O2 is added to the black compound, then it quickly turns light green again, and oxygen is produced.

So, S2O8(2-) contains a peroxo-group, but it reacts very different from hydrogen peroxide.


------------------------------------------------------------

According to literature, peroxodisulfate can be made by electrolysis of ice cold concentrated bisulfate (e.g. the sodium salt) at very high current density, using a platinum anode. At higher temperature or when another anode is used, then simply oxygen is produced at the anode.

[Edited on 11-4-12 by woelen]




The art of wondering makes life worth living...
Want to wonder? Look at https://woelen.homescience.net
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User

  Go To Top