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Author: Subject: Lab supply shop searching your house
JibbyDee
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[*] posted on 25-11-2011 at 13:54
Lab supply shop searching your house


One of the big laboratory supply shop in my city was advertising outside the labs at my college so I asked the guy (there was one representative standing by a table with leaflets and stuff) if they sell to individuals and he told me a story. He said someone was requesting lots of different chemicals, many of which were used in terrorist attacks such as the Madrid bombings so they did a background check on him and found out he was a 15 year old student. They told him they would supply him if he agreed to let them search his premises. The student declined. They said they'll supply equipment no problem but they have to be careful with who they supply chemicals to. I don't really mind people from a lab supply company searching my house. I'm not a terrorist or drug dealer so I don't really have anything to hide. I will probably have to clean up my lab a bit to ensure that everything complies with the countries regulations which will be a bit of a hassle though.

Firstly, what is the worst that can happen by letting these people search your premises? If it turned out that your setup isn't in 100% compliance with whatever national regulations are in place, would they be obliged to report you to some kind of agency which will force you to dismantle your lab and even worse, confiscate equipment? Secondly, I can't really imagine people from a lab supply company going around searching peoples houses, would it be more likely that they get the police to do it? If thats the case, I'd probably decline because my mother would freak out seeing the police searching the place. On top of that, their job is to punish people for breaking the law so if it was them that discovered that my lab did not comply 100% with the regulations they would be harsh about it and confiscate equipment and there wouldn't be a thing I could do about it. Any suggestions/advice?
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bahamuth
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[*] posted on 25-11-2011 at 14:43


Letting someone search your house just to prove ones innocence is letting ones freedom be molested.
Where will it go from there, drug testing, routine searching, psych evaluations and so fouth, on every one...

One quote comes to mind, though it dosen't fit perfectly I think is sums it up.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.-Benjamin Franklin




Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
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starman
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[*] posted on 25-11-2011 at 18:40


I can't imagine an employee of a scientific supply house conducting a house inspection.Sounds ridiculous.Probably law enforcement is involved.



Chemistry- The journey from the end of physics to the beginning of life.(starman)
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JibbyDee
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[*] posted on 25-11-2011 at 19:24


Quote: Originally posted by bahamuth  
Letting someone search your house just to prove ones innocence is letting ones freedom be molested.
Where will it go from there, drug testing, routine searching, psych evaluations and so fouth, on every one...

I agree. On top of that, it is aiding in the molestation of the freedoms of my fellow man because the more people who willingly give up their freedom of privacy, the more the people who refuse to give up their freedom will stick out and be stigmatised simply for refusing to relinquish their freedom. The only reason I considered doing something like this is because I don't see lab supply house staff as any kind of authority but it doesn't matter whether they are authority figures or not, allowing anyone to temporarily take your freedom of privacy like that is to allow your freedom be sodomized. Makes me sick seeing seemingly intelligent people allow their freedom be brutally gang raped because they won't pull their heads out of their rectal cavities for long enough to see that its not the boogey man we should be worried about, its the people proposing to protect us from the boogey man in exchange for our freedoms.

[Edited on 26-11-2011 by JibbyDee]
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k2976
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[*] posted on 26-11-2011 at 01:59


No science company should ever ask to search your residence. If they did to me I would laugh in their face and tell them they lost a customer. No one has any right to go through your house without a warrant, even police, a private company asking is just completely ridiculous and shouldn't happen. I wouldn't go through a company with a rep who felt comfortable telling that story to a potential customer.

This will never happen to you lol
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JibbyDee
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[*] posted on 26-11-2011 at 05:51


Quote: Originally posted by k2976  
No science company should ever ask to search your residence. If they did to me I would laugh in their face and tell them they lost a customer. No one has any right to go through your house without a warrant, even police, a private company asking is just completely ridiculous and shouldn't happen. I wouldn't go through a company with a rep who felt comfortable telling that story to a potential customer.

This will never happen to you lol


Thats what I thought. They were probably just testing the kid. This company doesn't usually sell to individuals, they supply companies, universities, factories etc. so I can't get all high and mighty with them and tell them they lost a potential customer. Then again if they're sending out representatives to stand outside the labs at universities all day they're obviously in need of more customers.
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jsc
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[*] posted on 27-11-2011 at 11:08


First of all, the word is "inspect" not "search".

Second of all, private companies don't inspect private residences.

The story is fabricated.
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k2976
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[*] posted on 27-11-2011 at 11:23


Quote: Originally posted by jsc  
First of all, the word is "inspect" not "search".


Semantics, if a police officer asked to "inspect" any part of my home I'd still need a warrant, including my lab. I'm not doing anything wrong but no one has the right to go through any of my personal possessions without just cause and that's determined by a judge. Having most chemicals and glassware certainly isn't even halfway there. That being said I think this guy is bullshitting you too or they felt like they could mess with the poor kid when they found out his age. Seems like an odd company, all of the companies I've dealt with who sell glassware to individuals have no problems offering them chemicals provided they are not listed.
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edgecase
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[*] posted on 27-11-2011 at 16:21


I recently had an experience with buying a "watched" chemical, one local supplier explained to me how KMnO4 is used in the drug trade, told me I'd have to give ID when picking it up, kept chatting with me for quite a while, got my name and number so he could all me back... it was all very CSI like drama while they stalled me to allow the call to be traced, for a quantity 10% of the amount requiring reporting.

I ended up buying it from another local company at half the price, who laughed when I told them about it being used for drugs. I did have to sign a waiver when I picked it up, but they weren't playing like they were detectives on the phone.
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mr.crow
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[*] posted on 27-11-2011 at 20:08


Another Canadian, eh?

Apparently they use it in Colombia to purify cocaine for the Americans to enjoy, so anything more than a 55kg bag needs to be reported. The idea is to control exports, no one is going to use it for that purpose here.




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JibbyDee
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[*] posted on 28-11-2011 at 00:16


Its ridiculous how they can justify restricting a chemical with as many uses as KMnO4 because it happens to be used by drug chemists. Drug chemists use water too, are they gonna restrict that?

[Edited on 28-11-2011 by JibbyDee]
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fledarmus
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[*] posted on 28-11-2011 at 17:35


Quote: Originally posted by JibbyDee  
Drug chemists use water too, are they gonna restrict that?

[Edited on 28-11-2011 by JibbyDee]


Not unless the bottlers are advertising that it can cure a medical condition, like, say, dehydration...
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JibbyDee
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[*] posted on 2-12-2011 at 22:08


Yeah, only a drug can cure a medical condition. Using water to cure dehydration, thats pure quackery. Like the time that guy claimed scurvy can be cured with vitamins. We need to government to protect us from these dangerous substances.
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[*] posted on 3-12-2011 at 18:30
Chemicals


If you have a good home lab, then make what you need and avoid the hassle.
Quote: Originally posted by bahamuth  
Letting
someone search your house just to prove ones innocence is letting ones freedom be molested.
Where will it go from there, drug testing, routine searching, psych evaluations and so fouth, on every one...

One quote comes to mind, though it dosen't fit perfectly I think is sums it up.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.-Benjamin Franklin
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neptunium
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[*] posted on 13-12-2011 at 11:16


since 9/11 , DHS has the right to investigate whoever they feel relevant and they can comfiscate your equipment interrogate you or even put you away untill they establish innocence.
everybody was shocked and angry after 9/11 ,the gov had to do something to adress the citizens's fear and concern. did they do the right thing? i dont think so but it was the best they could do at the time... but nobody then seemed to oppose it (maybe the ACLU?)
Today we can still buy some chemicals and glassware without being put on a red flag list somewhere. but for how long?
not only the DEA is keeping a close eye on home scientist but DHS and the patriot act make it 10 times harder than before...and for what? 800 000 people investigated and hassled or harrased over 10 years for 6 or 7 actual convictions?
grandmas and businessmen on the no fly list?
isnt it time to rethink the "land of the free" and what it really means?
doesnt all that crap keep people and kids away from a potential interest in science?
why do basketball wives and bully beat down get more audiences than the science ,history and nationnal geographic channel combined?
wouldnt that be better to have home grown scientist and doctors ?
are we not loosing our brain for china and india?
isnt it the technological advance of the US that made this country great in the first place?
I truely think people are being dumbed down every day .
and i witness powerless my freedom taking awy bits by bits
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peach
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[*] posted on 14-12-2011 at 09:50


The building control people constantly call round to sites to check concrete, damp proofing, insulation and wiring is being laid safely. Car insurance. Molestation of freedom?

Quote:
No one has any right to go through your house without a warrant


They don't.

Neither do you have any right to force the sale of their products to yourself, so there!

Quote:
Drug chemists use water too, are they gonna restrict that?


Engage with me in a simple legal thought experiment here and reverse your argument to an equal extreme, the sale of high activity nuclear materials at k-mart. Everyone would be medium-rare within the week.

Remove all water from Earth and place in large beaker in space -> everything dies
Allow sale of weapons grade nuclear material to the general public -> everyone gets cooked
Allow water, regulate materials that pose risk and that the general public don't have much use for -> workable

Quote:
On top of that, it is aiding in the molestation of the freedoms of my fellow man because the more people who willingly give up their freedom of privacy, the more the people who refuse to give up their freedom will stick out and be stigmatised simply for refusing to relinquish their freedom. The only reason I considered doing something like this is because I don't see lab supply house staff as any kind of authority but it doesn't matter whether they are authority figures or not, allowing anyone to temporarily take your freedom of privacy like that is to allow your freedom be sodomized. Makes me sick seeing seemingly intelligent people allow their freedom be brutally gang raped because they won't pull their heads out of their rectal cavities for long enough to see that its not the boogey man we should be worried about, its the people proposing to protect us from the boogey man in exchange for our freedoms.


You sure you're not making bombs? :P




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MagicJigPipe
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[*] posted on 16-12-2011 at 02:31


Peach, no one is arguing against what you propose. Everyone is arguing about what "pose risk" means and to what degree that should be used to regulate "risks". I do think that most of us would agree, however, that, if Joe Sixpack had his way, anything that is the least bit dangerous and is used by less than 50% of the population (or just him) would be unavailable. "He" may not realize that a large portion of his argument is an appeal to popularity, but it is (note the "2 SUVs with full tanks of gas sitting in the garage versus 55 gallon drum of hexane" conundrum).

I hope this makes more sense in the morning...




"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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