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Author: Subject: Refining mercury from cinnabar
plante1999
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[*] posted on 3-12-2011 at 05:35
Refining mercury from cinnabar


<div align="center"><img src="../scipics/_warn.png" /> <em>Mercury and it's compounds are <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_poisoning" target="_blank">cumulative neurotoxins</a> <img src="../scipics/_wiki.png" /> and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_cycle" target="_blank">persistent environmental pollutants</a> <img src="../scipics/_wiki.png" />! Proceed at your own risk & <u>dispose of wastes responsibly</u>.</em> <img src="../scipics/_warn.png" /></div><br /><hr width="80%" />
I know that oxidizing cinnabar HgS make mercury and SO<sub>2</sub> but does somebody know a leach for leaching mercury out of it and precipitate the mercury? I want mercury to make sodium hydroxide from electrolisis and disolve gold plating...

Thanks!!!!

Please check my website in the signature!!!

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[Edited on 11.10.13 by bfesser]




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[*] posted on 3-12-2011 at 06:22


My advice? Just don't do it unless you can buy some mercury and can use it safely.

You don't really need mercury to make NaOH and you really don't need to make NaOH as you can buy it just about anywhere.

To dissolve gold plating as an amalgam also requires being able to safely distill off the mercury to recover the gold. Are you equipped for that?




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plante1999
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[*] posted on 3-12-2011 at 06:34


I am not intended to distill the mercury , I will disolve the mercury in nitric acid to get the gold and re-precipitate the mercury.



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[*] posted on 3-12-2011 at 10:40


Don't do it. You'll end up with at least strong acute poisoning. Dude, that means roasting cinnabar. Essentially, boiling mercury.

And the idea to make homemade lye using mercury cathode... OMG just stop right there.




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plante1999
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[*] posted on 3-12-2011 at 10:45


Ok I won't do it... But does someone know where i can get 5-10ml of mercury metal? I can not paid more than 40$ for it.

I have found this at this time:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/50pcs-glass-electric-Mercury-Tilt-Swi...

[Edited on 3-12-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 3-12-2011 by plante1999]




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[*] posted on 3-12-2011 at 11:00


The cheapest source are old mercury sphygmomanometers. Not old enough to be considered expensive vintage equipment, but old enough to be considered crap. They contain around the volume you need.

Or go to Kyiv with a sturdy bucket and a pair of very strong guys. :D




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plante1999
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[*] posted on 7-12-2011 at 07:24


(I will not do it) But if I dry distill HgS with KClO<sub>3</sub> , MnO<sub>2</sub> or Ca(ClO)<sub>2</sub> and a condence the vapor in a CH<sub>3</sub>OH/H<sub>2</sub>O sol cooled in a Ice/HCl bath (-30 degree C) does it will make liquid mercury?


Thanks!!!

[Edited on 7-12-2011 by plante1999]

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[Edited on 3.8.13 by bfesser]




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[*] posted on 7-12-2011 at 07:44


That’s quite an interesting question, actually! And I’ve no clear idea of the answer.

KClO<sub>3</sub>: that releases oxygen from about 400 C, whether that temperature is enough to convert HgS to HgO + SO<sub>2</sub> I’m not sure…

MnO<sub>2</sub>: SO<sub>2</sub> is actually capable of reducing MnO<sub>2</sub> in watery media to Mn (II), that’s one way of extracting MnSO<sub>4</sub> from battery gunge. But here the MnO<sub>2</sub> would have to oxidise sulphide to SO<sub>2</sub> first, which would then escape. Hmmm…

Ca(ClO)<sub>2</sub>: in watery media hypochlorite is certainly capable of oxidising sulphide to sulphur, even to sulphate apparently.

There are other oxidisers that could be considered (KMnO<sub>4</sub> and K<sub>2</sub>Cr<sub>2</sub>O<sub>7</sub> for instance).

This could be worth trying on a very small scale, provided you have adequate means to capture any formed Hg. A small test tube with a cooled (open) end would probably be enough to condense the small amounts of mercury…

I would google this thoroughly first. I suspect that the fact that there seem to be no youtube vids demontrating this possibly provides an answer to your question, though! :(

[Edited on 7-12-2011 by blogfast25]

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[Edited on 3.8.13 by bfesser]




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plante1999
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[*] posted on 7-12-2011 at 09:04


I have found an interresing link here , one cleam that HgS can be reduced with Fe or CaO.

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2004/hooper/extraction....

EDIT:
I have read more pages and it seam that Hg could be leached from HgS with tincture of iodine ( KI , I<sub>2</sub>;)....

8 HgS + 8 KI + 8 I<sub>2</sub> --> 8 K<sub>2</sub>HgI<sub>4</sub> + S<sub>8</sub>

Generaly mercury is extracted when HgS is reacted with oxygen and condencing the mercury so , there is probably a chance that other oxydiser work.

HgS + O<sub>2</sub> --> SO<sub>2</sub> + Hg


[Edited on 7-12-2011 by plante1999]

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[Edited on 3.8.13 by bfesser]




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[*] posted on 7-12-2011 at 09:23


Both reactions:

HgS + Fe → Hg + FeS
4 HgS + 4 CaO → 4 Hg + 3 CaS + CaSO<sub>4</sub>

… also require high temperatures to get started (or so I believe) which brings us back to not poisoning yourself with mercury vapours.

When you first popped your question, I was inclined to consider watery electrolysis of a HgCl<sub>2</sub> or Hg(NO<sub>3</sub>;)<sub>2</sub> solution, because at least that would avoid any mercury vapour at all. Whether the formed mercury would coalesce into liquid mercury I don’t know (but I suspect it does). Here’s one reference from the Journal of the American Chemical. Society that clearly suggests it is possible.

Bear in mind that cinnabar in terms of toxicity is a child’s toy compared to water soluble mercuric compounds…


[Edited on 7-12-2011 by blogfast25]

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[Edited on 3.8.13 by bfesser]




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[*] posted on 7-12-2011 at 11:37


Quote: Originally posted by plante1999  
(I will not do it) But if I dry distill HgS with KClO<sub>3</sub>, MnO<sub>2</sub> or Ca(ClO)<sub>2</sub> and a condence the vapor in a CH<sub>3</sub>OH/H<sub>2</sub>O sol cooled in a Ice/HCl bath (-30 degree C) does it will make liquid mercury?

I'm fairly sure that most sulphides are combustible and you plan to mix them with a strong oxidant, then heat the mixture.
Are you trying to win a Darwin award?

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[Edited on 3.8.13 by bfesser]
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[*] posted on 7-12-2011 at 12:37


Quote: Originally posted by unionised  
I'm fairly sure that most sulphides are combustible and you plan to mix them with a strong oxidant, then heat the mixture.


Inorganic sulphides like HgS or FeS<sub>2</sub> require loads of air oxygen and high temperatures + time to convert ('combust' if you prefer). Would you class these as 'combustibles'?

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[Edited on 3.8.13 by bfesser]




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[*] posted on 7-12-2011 at 13:43


Pyrites certainly burns.
Things like coke and coal "require loads of air oxygen and high temperatures + time to convert ('combust' if you prefer)."

I would class these as "combustibles".
Ferrous sulphide is sometimes pyrophoric
Mellor lists the reaction of copper sulphide with the chlorates of magnesium, zinc or cadmium as explosive.
(1965 vol 2 suppl 1 P584 if my copy of Bretherick is to be believed)

[Edited on 7-12-11 by unionised]
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[*] posted on 7-12-2011 at 14:00


Runaway oxidation of CuS (and by extension HgS) could lead to very quick formation of SO<sub>2</sub>, thus explosion if contained. Plausible.

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[Edited on 3.8.13 by bfesser]




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[*] posted on 7-12-2011 at 16:32


Hi plante go to a used building supplies and try to buy mercury heat controll thermostat
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plante1999
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[*] posted on 7-12-2011 at 18:06


Quote: Originally posted by unionised  


I'm fairly sure that most sulphides are combustible and you plan to mix them with a strong oxidant, then heat the mixture.
Are you trying to win a Darwin award?


I will not win an darwin award. I do safely my experiments ,and I am not intended to kill me, but I want some mercury so I will find a SAFE process to get some.




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[*] posted on 8-12-2011 at 07:13


For:

HgS(s) + 2/3 KClO<sub>3</sub>(s) === > Hg(l) + SO<sub>2</sub>(g) + 2/3 KCl(s)

… the Standard Enthalpy of Reaction is about - 264 kJ/mole of HgS (*). That’s quite a lot and it’s likely that once the reaction has been initiated it will briskly sustain itself with liberation of vaporous Hg (and of course gaseous SO<sub>2</sub>;). It would be worth trying this on a very small scale, using a long or extended test tube, OUTSIDE and standing upwind from the experiment.


(*) All data for Standard Enthalpies of Formation by Wolfram Alpha.

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[Edited on 3.8.13 by bfesser]




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plante1999
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[*] posted on 8-12-2011 at 09:06


I thinked to something interressing , why not reduce HgS powder with Al or Zn powder ... It could self sustain and make mercury vapor that can be condensed.

2 Al + 3 HgS --> 3 Hg + Al<sub>2</sub>S<sub>3</sub>

Zn + HgS --> ZnS + Hg

[Edited on 8-12-2011 by plante1999]

<!-- bfesser_edit_tag -->[<a href="u2u.php?action=send&username=bfesser">bfesser</a>: rxn. eqn. cleanup]

[Edited on 3.8.13 by bfesser]




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[*] posted on 8-12-2011 at 09:54


Al<sub>2</sub>S<sub>3</sub> has quite a high HoF, about - 724 kJ/mole (Wolfram Alpha). The HoF of HgS (Wolfram Alpha) is only about - 58 kJ/mole. That puts the Standard Enthalpy of Reaction for that reaction at about - 183 kJ/mole of HgS. Quite hot still.

For ZnS Wolfram gives a Standard HoF of about - 200 kJ/mole, thus for that reaction the Standard Enthalpy of Reaction would be roughly - 150 kJ/mole of HgS reduced. That's quite manageable and could be 'tamed' even further by adding a heat sink. In this case ordinary fine sand could be used, as neither zinc nor mercury are even remotely capable of reducing silica. This is definitively worth test tubing with a small quantity... Zinc powder would be required.


[Edited on 8-12-2011 by blogfast25]

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[Edited on 3.8.13 by bfesser]




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plante1999
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[*] posted on 13-12-2011 at 09:04


Does somebody have cinnabar powder for making the test? If nobody can I will buy some in a few weeks.



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[*] posted on 23-12-2011 at 10:42


Who sells cinnabar?
You could of course make it by mixing Hg and S but I'm getting the impression that you want the Hg. The best thing to do is to by a sphygmo...whatever it is called from ebay. They cost around 35$. Make sure you buy the "vintage" ones.
You can even find some for 10$.

When I bought it, it gave me 60 g of Hg.
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[*] posted on 23-12-2011 at 12:14


LOL, you envision building a Castner cell to make lye?

There are much, much easier ways to make lye. The basic approach is to heat chalk (calcium carbonate) in a furnace at 1000C to convert it to lime (calcium oxide). Add water to make lime water (calcium hydroxide). Then combine with washing soda (sodium carbonate) to make lye.

Or you could buy lye for 50 cents a pound or whatever it is. Its cheaper than sawdust.

All of this is irrelevant of course because anyone who is dumb enough to not know this sort of thing will never in million years be able to make a Castner cell. You realize that requires machining right? Have you ever even TOUCHED a lathe in your life? Probably not.

Here's another tip: don't breathe mercury fumes because that will make you even dumber than you already are.

I advise taking up a hobby that doesn't involve heavy metals or sharp objects.

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plante1999
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[*] posted on 23-12-2011 at 18:32


Cinnabar can be bougth on ebay.... I did touched a late and machined an small engine cylinder.





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[*] posted on 23-12-2011 at 18:48


Quote: Originally posted by jsc  
LOL, you envision building a Castner cell to make lye?

There are much, much easier ways to make lye. The basic approach is to heat chalk (calcium carbonate) in a furnace at 1000C to convert it to lime (calcium oxide). Add water to make lime water (calcium hydroxide). Then combine with washing soda (sodium carbonate) to make lye.

Or you could buy lye for 50 cents a pound or whatever it is. Its cheaper than sawdust.

All of this is irrelevant of course because anyone who is dumb enough to not know this sort of thing will never in million years be able to make a Castner cell. You realize that requires machining right? Have you ever even TOUCHED a lathe in your life? Probably not.

Here's another tip: don't breathe mercury fumes because that will make you even dumber than you already are.

I advise taking up a hobby that doesn't involve heavy metals or sharp objects.



Spoken like one who has snuffed far to much Hg in their lifetime.
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[*] posted on 24-12-2011 at 05:22


Quote: Originally posted by jsc  
LOL, you envision building a Castner cell to make lye?

There are much, much easier ways to make lye. The basic approach is to heat chalk (calcium carbonate) in a furnace at 1000C to convert it to lime (calcium oxide). Add water to make lime water (calcium hydroxide). Then combine with washing soda (sodium carbonate) to make lye.

Or you could buy lye for 50 cents a pound or whatever it is. Its cheaper than sawdust.

All of this is irrelevant of course because anyone who is dumb enough to not know this sort of thing will never in million years be able to make a Castner cell. You realize that requires machining right? Have you ever even TOUCHED a lathe in your life? Probably not.

Here's another tip: don't breathe mercury fumes because that will make you even dumber than you already are.

I advise taking up a hobby that doesn't involve heavy metals or sharp objects.



You don't need to insult people.

Making NaOH with a starting material of CaCO<sub>3</sub> is a big waste of time. You have to heat it to some high temperature and for a good while to allow it to decompose to CaO. Then the biggest problem = Ca(OH)<sub>2</sub> doesn't dissolve much in water. Then you have to dry it. NaOH is very hygroscopic. Even if you heat it to dryness, it will react with your glassware (presuming you are using glassware).

I have attempted to make KOH using mercury. It is an interesting experiment but again, a big time consumer.

If you need kilogram quantities of NaOH, I know a place in Montreal. I bought 4 Kg for 27$ taxes included. It is used for making soap.

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[Edited on 3.8.13 by bfesser]
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