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Tsjerk
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One of the problems, if we would ever get to the point of transplanting a complete nervous system, is that the nervous system is not immune to aging.
One of the problems for example I see is the fact that every nervous cell produces alpha and or beta-amyloids, which can not be degraded by biological
means. Even chemically they are damn tough; boiling in trifluoroacetic acid is needed to break them apart and they will recombine when isolated.
These amyloids are one of the causes of Alzheimer for example, the only reason why not everybody gets Alzheimer is the rate by which these amyloids
are produced, most people die before they accumulate Alzheimer.
[Edited on 8-4-2014 by Tsjerk]
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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Not everyone will get alzheimer.
I wonder if anyone here have in depth study in bio cryogenics. If immortality is still not invented before my death, I think ill my my self frozen :p
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Chemosynthesis
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Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  | One of the problems, if we would ever get to the point of transplanting a complete nervous system, is that the nervous system is not immune to aging.
One of the problems for example I see is the fact that every nervous cell produces alpha and or beta-amyloids, which can not be degraded by biological
means. Even chemically they are damn tough; boiling in trifluoroacetic acid is needed to break them apart and they will recombine when isolated.
These amyloids are one of the causes of Alzheimer for example, the only reason why not everybody gets Alzheimer is the rate by which these amyloids
are produced, most people die before they accumulate Alzheimer.
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I agree with your post, but there are new antibodies that have shown some efficacy in preventing and arresting these types of protein agglutinations
in mouse models, so that particular example may not hold much longer.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23217740
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aga
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Anti-agathics !
The Chemistry is super-complex, but the process is very very simple.
Pour 0.375 litres of conc. Nitric Acid on every burger you find.
Simples.
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quantumchromodynamics
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consciousness and telomeres
I personally have experienced near death. When I first started tinkering with high voltage things I electrocuted myself with a microwave oven
transformer. After Thor's hammer smashed my ass over the workbench, I clearly remember seeing my body laying on the floor from above, and my point of
view was slowly rising upwards. I struggled violently to move my body. A very strange thing was that with each effort it felt like my body was
initially responding, but when I realized I was still paralyzed these efforts escalated into panic. After a huge fight, and I mean a HUGE fight, I
managed to get back down into my body and was able to move again. I don't believe in God, and I can't explain that experience. From that experience it
seems that consciousness can separate from the body. Consciousness being perception and thoughts and sense of self.
As I understand the aging process, cellular DNA runs a program that slowly unwinds the telomeres. Apparently, our cells have a built in planned
software obsolescence. As the DNA copy program runs the telomers are unwound and the ends of the new DNA are subject to more damage, eventually
causing the DNA to fail. Cancer. It seems that if we could alter cellular DNA programming, (download a DNA patch), so that it did not unwind the
telomeres, it might be possible to extend the longevity of our physical bodies.
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Chemosynthesis
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| Quote: Originally posted by quantumchromodynamics | | As I understand the aging process, cellular DNA runs a program that slowly unwinds the telomeres. Apparently, our cells have a built in planned
software obsolescence. As the DNA copy program runs the telomers are unwound and the ends of the new DNA are subject to more damage, eventually
causing the DNA to fail. Cancer. It seems that if we could alter cellular DNA programming, (download a DNA patch), so that it did not unwind the
telomeres, it might be possible to extend the longevity of our physical bodies. |
Kind of. It's more that whenever DNA replicates, the telomeres aren't entirely replicated because the segment that DNA primase attaches to and primes
(with RNA) isn't kept in the copy strand. Telomeres are repetitious sequences, so this truncation doesn't matter at first, but once a limit is
reached, you would begin to damage non-telomere DNA, and that tends to halt replication or trigger cell apoptosis.
The telomeres have to be accessed through DNA replication mechanisms (helicase, topoisomerase, histone firing, etc.) in order to replicate the cell
faithfully.
There are enzymes that extend the telomeres, called telomerases. Unfortunately, activating these can cause cancer, and they are overactive in many
cancers. This makes it far more likely that a cell lives long enough to sustain mutation damage, and the multiple hit hypothesis (aka Knudson
hypothesis) reasons that the more mutations a cell has, the greater the chance of activating an oncogene or inactivating a tumor suppressor.
So, the Hayflick limit is arguably an evolutionary selection tool to build in an expiration date based on the proofreading error rate in DNA
replication. Because of this, unregulated telomerase activation is actually a bad thing. Even ephemeral activation with a pharmacophore of tailored
half-life would increase risk for oncogenesis, at least minusculely. There're all kinds of links in my previous post on this type of thing.
There's more, but I start to get fuzzy after that without more reading from one of my old advisors.
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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How do you get brain cancer if your brain cells do not divide ?
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Tsjerk
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| Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry | Not everyone will get alzheimer.
I wonder if anyone here have in depth study in bio cryogenics. If immortality is still not invented before my death, I think ill my my self frozen :p
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Maybe I was not entirely clear, what I meant was; Everybody will get Alzheimer if they would live long enough. Just as everybody would get cancer if
they would live long enough. Everybody is building up the plaque or the mutations causing these diseases, just not everyone builds them up at the same
rate.
Not all cells in your brain are neural cells, but you can still get neural cancer if mutations appear in them during their growth, every cell is
coming from stem cells originally, so in that process cancer can occur. I know a girl who has egg-cell cancer, very rare because egg-cells don't
divide before fertilization, but it does exist. The fact cells don't divide doesn't mean they can't.
[Edited on 9-4-2014 by Tsjerk]
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German
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I would argue we are more then just memories. Being data storage devices I believe is a too simplified view of human beings.
Besides, perhaps this isn't being alive. Perhaps we are dead and those on the other side are the ones who are alive.
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alexleyenda
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Your brain does not only contain neurons as stated previously, they also contain gliocytes, cells that support your central nervous system by : making
an electric isolating coating on the axons, filtering the blood to make sure the liquid feeding the neurons is absolutely perfect and infection free,
defend against infections that passes through the barrier anyway etc... and these gliocytes well they do divide. So when you get a brain cancer it is
these cells that are fucked up.
[Edited on 27-6-2014 by alexleyenda]
Help us build the Sciencemadness Wiki! Every question and tips about amateur chemistry two clicks away, wouldn't that be awesome?!
sciencemadness.org/smwiki
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pneumatician
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Mood: ■■■■■■■■■■ INRI ■■■■■■■■■■ ** Igne Natura Renovatur Integra **
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only onother organism act like humans, a virus a cancer...
agent smith, matrix.
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pneumatician
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The paradigm of science is that creation is all, and the creator is nothing. Religion says the creator is all, and the creation is nothing. These two
extremes are the bars of a prison cell. They prevent observation of all phenomenon as an interactive whole.
eureka telomeres is the key!!!
No!!! telomeres produce cancer!!!
eureka antioxidants is the key!!!
No!!! antioxidants is qaukery!!!
AL-chemy is charlatan's quakery!!!
devilish chemicals are good!!!  DDD...
not a medium point? you are lost FOREVER.
human body is too much complex for idiots searching A ONLY PILL of inmortality, must take the human body as a system with subsystems, all running at
the same time for same-determined goal. the only "pill of inmortality" of which I and many of you have heard is the philosopher stone. any other
"concept" like this in modern pharmachem???
nobody here talk about heavy water, body petrification...
-----
All form, all physical form is, in reality, vibration, and all vibration is in reality consciousness.
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Random
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Well the older I get the concept of dying becomes simpler and simpler. Like when I got so drunk, also drank absinthe mixed with all sorts of other
drinks if that means something that I was basically under whole body anaesthesia basically and as crazy as it sounds I was feeling indifferent to
dying. Euphoric state was also contributing to this but to me the concept of time stopped and my life was seeming pretty worthless. I don't feel like
this now of course but under the influence for example of a very very high dose of alcohol it was pretty different. And if I remember it, I was
feeling like I was dying and I wasn't scared of it. This experience changed my perspective on life. People are scared of death not because of dying
but because of pain. The only thing I felt was this "why today?"
This makes me more scared of accidents that would damage my quality of life than death. Also while you are alive you might aswell make the best out of
it as long as you are able. This doesn't mean I am against anti-aging research at all. Also it doesn't mean that you should behave like you are on top
of the world, just make the best of the events that are happening and are given right now to you without much philosophy. Getting off topic here but
my philosophy is wherever I am consciouss, I'll try to adapt (and yeah that currently meany protecting my health).
[Edited on 2-11-2014 by Random]
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halogen
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What most people don't understand is that pain and death are the same thing.
When something hurts, it's because part of you imagines the result is debilitation.
When one has information, the imagination is modulated. In doubt, the body fears change, instinctive images relied on.
F. de Lalande and M. Prud'homme showed that a mixture of boric oxide and sodium chloride is decomposed in a stream of dry air or oxygen at a red heat
with the evolution of chlorine.
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Chemosynthesis
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| Quote: Originally posted by pneumatician | The paradigm of science is that creation is all, and the creator is nothing. Religion says the creator is all, and the creation is nothing. These two
extremes are the bars of a prison cell. They prevent observation of all phenomenon as an interactive whole.
[…]
All form, all physical form is, in reality, vibration, and all vibration is in reality consciousness.
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1. Not at all. Please cite where either "says" what you claim. You portray the two as diammetrically opposed, yet this is not necessarily the case;
See Jay Gould. Empiricism is limited to physically demonstrable "facts" through rejectable hypotheses, but says nothing on what has yet to be or
cannot be tested in a falsifiable manner. See Karl Popper. Also feel free to read the chapter "The Dragon In My Garage" of Carl Sagan's The
Demon-Haunted World.
As for religion, that has nothing to do with the forum, and making broad, sweeping generalizations of all religions seems very controversial
elsewhere. Take pantheism, for example. Michio Kaku claims to be a pantheist, believing that the universe is a deity, and he is not alone. That
contradicts your statement.
http://hollowverse.com/michio-kaku/
I can't believe that your statements warranted bumping the thread.
2. New age quackery about vibrations and consciousness, along with bumping old threads to quote the Matrix should be cited per forum rules and
avoided, respectively.
| Quote: Originally posted by halogen | | What most people don't understand is that pain and death are the same thing. When something hurts, it's because part of you imagines the result is
debilitation. When one has information, the imagination is modulated. In doubt, the body fears change, instinctive images relied on.
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Pain and death are absolutely not the same thing, otherwise local anesthetics and analgesics wouldn't
function, or would prevent death.
Neuroscience and neuropharmacology are biological in nature, and removed from cognition (cognitive scientists are unsure whether the same can be said
for cognition). This separation of the two allows congenital inability to feel pain in very living organisms. Apoptosis in non-neural cells doesn't
induce pain since pain is a neural phenomenon, and different types of pain utilize different signaling pathways and receptors. See capsacin receptors,
pain fibers, thermalgesia, etc.
Likewise, conditions such as neuralgia may not indicate cellular damage to the extent of death, and dead tissue does not feel pain (referred pain such
as phantom limb syndrome being different).
[Edited on 3-11-2014 by Chemosynthesis]
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gardul
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I maybe the odd one here, but I say embrace death. I as well have had near death experiences. I have had many fight or flight experience as well in my
life. There is no need to fear death when it is your time to go. What should be feared is the pain and misery that can come with it. If i ever get
terminal cancer or am on my death bed and have no way of recovery why on earth would I want to be a burden to others? Stick a needle in me or cut my
head off, what ever it takes. Death shouldn't be feared. Anything that is living has to die at some point. This is just a fact. Nothing lives forever
and, honestly I wouldn't want to. I couldn't deal with society for another 100 years or more.
As this may sound rather morbid and odd for most people. i have seen a lot of darkness in my short time here. While we should fight to stay a live if
you choose to, but when it is your time.. it is your time and no matter how hard you fight it is time to go. Embrace the unkown. who knows what is on
the other side.
I just made you read this very pointless signature. How does it feel?
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