nerdalert226
Harmless
Posts: 14
Registered: 22-12-2011
Location: United States
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bose-Einstien Condensate
|
|
NH4NO3+NaOH solution=NaNO3?
When making NaNO3 by mixing solid NaOH and solid NH4NO3 and adding water (with all safety apparatus of course fume hood,goggles,apron,gloves,etc.)what
is the minimal molar solution of NaOH that can be used to still react thoroughly with the NH4NO3 to result in NaNO3?
cite: Make Sodium Nitrate, A Potassium Nitrate Substitute. Dir. Butyl N. Lithum. Perf. Dr.N.Butyl Lithium. 2009. Youtube. Youtube. Web. 24 Dec.
2011. <http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQJhf_24-QM>.
|
|
|
AndersHoveland
Hazard to Other Members, due to repeated speculation and posting of untested highly dangerous procedures!
Posts: 1986
Registered: 2-3-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I do not think there really is any minimal concentration if the solution is heated or boiled.
|
|
|
nerdalert226
Harmless
Posts: 14
Registered: 22-12-2011
Location: United States
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bose-Einstien Condensate
|
|
cool ,thanks!
|
|
|
entropy51
Gone, but not forgotten
Posts: 1612
Registered: 30-5-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fissile
|
|
I agree. I
have done this one with dilute and concentrated solutions, and it seems to work either way. Dilute solutions just require more boiling down to get
crystals.
I think adding water to the dry chemicals is just asking for troubles.
Although I have gone this route too, have you looked for KNO3 stump removers? I just bought a boatload of Green Light stump remover for $6 per pound.
After a quick recrystallization it is quite pure KNO3.
|
|
|
nerdalert226
Harmless
Posts: 14
Registered: 22-12-2011
Location: United States
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bose-Einstien Condensate
|
|
Yeah I have stump remover that I bought but I was just wondering what would happen in theory
|
|
|
White Yeti
National Hazard
Posts: 816
Registered: 20-7-2011
Location: Asperger's spectrum
Member Is Offline
Mood: delocalized
|
|
As long as your stoichiometry is correct, the reaction should carry to completion, as with most inorganic ion exchange reactions. Keep in mind
however, that ammonia is soluble in water, meaning that if there is too much water, the ammonia will not gas off, and you'll have to heat the solution
to get rid of the ammonia. Ammonia reacts with water to form NH4OH, if there is too much water, the ammonia will stay in solution as NH4+ and OH-, and
your reaction will go nowhere.
If you hate the smell of ammonia as much as I do, this is not a reaction you will look forward to doing
"Ja, Kalzium, das ist alles!" -Otto Loewi
|
|
|
hissingnoise
International Hazard
Posts: 3940
Registered: 26-12-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pulverulescent!
|
|
When a dry, stoichiometric mixture of finely ground table salt and ammonium nitrate is heated slowly, NH<sub>4</sub>Cl will slowly sublime
and may be collected on a cooled receiver!
Temperature should be controlled to prevent fusion and when sublimation ceases the residue will consist of NaNO<sub>3</sub> plus whatever
small amounts of anti-caking agent were used.
The NH<sub>4</sub>Cl collected though, will be of fairly high purity!
Another route would be to boil a solution of NH<sub>4</sub>NO<sub>3</sub>/NaCO<sub>3</sub>!
(NH<sub>4</sub> <sub>2</sub>CO<sub>3</sub> will
be driven off and can be condensed as a concentrated solution.
You could use the sal volatile to revive your partner if, during energetic copulation, she should slip into unconsciousness, as they're sometimes
wont to do!
[Edited on 28-12-2011 by hissingnoise]
|
|
|
White Yeti
National Hazard
Posts: 816
Registered: 20-7-2011
Location: Asperger's spectrum
Member Is Offline
Mood: delocalized
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  |
Another route would be to boil a solution of
NH<sub>4</sub>NO<sub>3</sub>/Na[<sub>2</sub>]CO<sub>3</sub>!
(NH<sub>4</sub><sub>2</sub>CO<sub>3</sub> will
be driven off and can be condensed as a concentrated solution.
|
What are you talking about?! Ammonium carbonate and bicarbonate (in case nerdalert226 would want to use NaHCO3 instead of Na2CO3) both decompose in
hot water, never mind condensing and using them for who knows what.
"Ja, Kalzium, das ist alles!" -Otto Loewi
|
|
|
hissingnoise
International Hazard
Posts: 3940
Registered: 26-12-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pulverulescent!
|
|
| Quote: | | Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise | Another route would be to boil a solution of
NH<sub>4</sub>NO<sub>3</sub>/Na[<sub>2</sub>]CO<sub>3</sub>!
(NH<sub>4</sub><sub>2</sub>CO<sub>3</sub> will
be driven off and can be condensed as a concentrated solution.
|
What are you talking about?! Ammonium carbonate and bicarbonate (in case nerdalert226 would want to use
NaHCO3 instead of Na2CO3) both decompose in hot water, never mind condensing and using them for who knows what. |
Ooooh, you are, er, um, abominable, Mr Yeti, but thanks for correcting my wee error. 
Washing soda is cheaper and more available than the hydroxide, in case you didn't know?
And 'sal volatile' does indeed decompose by heat; ((NH<sub>4</sub><sub>2</sub>CO<sub>3</sub>∙H<sub>2</sub>O ---> 2NH<sub>3</sub> +
CO<sub>2</sub> + 2H<sub>2</sub>O).
You do understand the equation?
Distillation from solution should be carried out at ~80°C for best results . . .
BTW, White Yeti, have you lived a, how should I say, an 'unusually  cloistered
life', by any chance?
|
|
|
White Yeti
National Hazard
Posts: 816
Registered: 20-7-2011
Location: Asperger's spectrum
Member Is Offline
Mood: delocalized
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise | Ooooh, you are, er, um, abominable, Mr Yeti, but thanks for correcting my wee error.
Washing soda is cheaper and more available than the hydroxide, in case you didn't know? |
Yes, I know washing soda is cheaper than hydroxide, not to mention more available. I didn't have sodium hydroxide until yesterday, when I made it from
chalk and baking soda, I never thought I'd see the day, but it worked
*The abominable snowman looks down at keyboard in shame*
*sighs*
Yes.
"Ja, Kalzium, das ist alles!" -Otto Loewi
|
|
|
hissingnoise
International Hazard
Posts: 3940
Registered: 26-12-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pulverulescent!
|
|
It's all ahead of you - do you know how lucky you are?
|
|
|
hissingnoise
International Hazard
Posts: 3940
Registered: 26-12-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pulverulescent!
|
|
Another quick aside; since sal volatile (smelling salts) produces only small quantities of free ammonia, and the gas being toxic in quantity, sniffing
smelling salts can improve performance in certain 'strenuous sports'!
|
|
|
White Yeti
National Hazard
Posts: 816
Registered: 20-7-2011
Location: Asperger's spectrum
Member Is Offline
Mood: delocalized
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise | Another quick aside; since sal volatile (smelling salts) produces only small quantities of free ammonia, and the gas being toxic in quantity, sniffing
smelling salts can improve performance in certain 'strenuous sports'!
|
Believe it or not, I've been trying to make NH<sub>4</sub>HCO<sub>3</sub> for a while, and I haven't succeeded yet. It must
have something to do with the salt's volatility. I neutralised household ammonia with unflavoured seltzer until the solution was mildly acidic. IIRC,
I tested the solution for bicarbonate ions with a concentrated solution of CaCl<sub>2</sub> and the test was positive (turned cloudy).
I didn't try to mix carbonated water with CaCl<sub>2</sub> as a control (silly me) and I'm all out of seltzer
Anyway, I left the solution to evaporate over a heating vent and a few days later, I was left with a dull white powder that doesn't smell like
anything, not even of ammonia when heated. The powder was probably the impurities in both the water and ammonia :\ Better luck next time.
If you were wondering what I was going to use it for, I was hoping to use it as fuel for hydrogen fuel cells. Since the salt releases ammonia when
heated (apparently it also releases ammonia spontaneously), the salt could be used to store ammonia at room temperature, and the ammonia could be
split to yield hydrogen.
"Ja, Kalzium, das ist alles!" -Otto Loewi
|
|
|
hissingnoise
International Hazard
Posts: 3940
Registered: 26-12-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pulverulescent!
|
|
I just came across this.
If you have a strong stomach you could try it! 
And the 'working material' is something there'll never be a shortage of.
|
|
|
White Yeti
National Hazard
Posts: 816
Registered: 20-7-2011
Location: Asperger's spectrum
Member Is Offline
Mood: delocalized
|
|
Some people think I'm crazy, but I'm not crazy enough to make compounds by using urine as a starting material I don't think I have the dedication to do such a thing, or the stomach for that matter.
"Ja, Kalzium, das ist alles!" -Otto Loewi
|
|
|
hissingnoise
International Hazard
Posts: 3940
Registered: 26-12-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pulverulescent!
|
|
Well, in that case, you'll just have to get it the really hard way?
|
|
|
dann2
International Hazard
Posts: 1523
Registered: 31-1-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by White Yeti | | ......If you have a strong stomach you could try it! ......Some people think I'm crazy, but I'm not crazy enough............ I don't think I have the
dedication to do such a thing, or the stomach for that matter. |
It's a great big bladder you need, no need for a stomach (strong or otherwish) at all.
|
|
|
White Yeti
National Hazard
Posts: 816
Registered: 20-7-2011
Location: Asperger's spectrum
Member Is Offline
Mood: delocalized
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by dann2 | | Quote: Originally posted by White Yeti | | ......If you have a strong stomach you could try it! ......Some people think I'm crazy, but I'm not crazy enough............ I don't think I have the
dedication to do such a thing, or the stomach for that matter. |
It's a great big bladder you need, no need for a stomach (strong or otherwish) at all. |
You need a strong stomach not to throw up when dealing with the fumes emanating from stale urine
"Ja, Kalzium, das ist alles!" -Otto Loewi
|
|
|
hissingnoise
International Hazard
Posts: 3940
Registered: 26-12-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pulverulescent!
|
|
Any thoughts on dealing with fresh urine?
|
|
|
White Yeti
National Hazard
Posts: 816
Registered: 20-7-2011
Location: Asperger's spectrum
Member Is Offline
Mood: delocalized
|
|
Hiss, I think you better stop.
"Ja, Kalzium, das ist alles!" -Otto Loewi
|
|
|
smaerd
International Hazard
Posts: 1262
Registered: 23-1-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: hmm...
|
|
I have done this a few times. If you have a means to transfer the gas with a diffuser of sorts into water, this is a 'double whammy' for an amateur
chemist. You can create concentrated ammonia solutions, as well as NaNO3 which is prime for nitric acid. Be advised though adding water to this
mixture will instantaneously begin gassing of NH3.
|
|
|
hissingnoise
International Hazard
Posts: 3940
Registered: 26-12-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pulverulescent!
|
|
| Quote: | | Hiss, I think you better stop. |
I think you're right, White Yeti - I do seem to bang on and on . . .
Incidentally, I'm not the first to have posted that link here!
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
