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thunderfvck
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[*] posted on 18-4-2004 at 00:27
Containers


I am trying to figure out what to use to hold my concentrated H2SO4. Will HDPE be alright? I have these nice big bottle that I can get from work, they're empty Javel bottles...Wash them out, and boom, not bad? Is HDPE an all around acid/base resistant material? OR are their things that I should not add to the HDPE. I should add that these containers are white, not clear, if this at all bears any significance. I recall having put some H2SO4 (not concentrated) in HDPE which was a yellow plastic, and the H2SO4 turned it slightly black. Do you think I'd have the same problem with the white containers? I don't want to contaminate my juice.

What does everyone else use to hold their fluids/chemicals? Nothig fancy I suppose, but I'd like to hear whatcha got.




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Saerynide
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[*] posted on 18-4-2004 at 04:35


Why not use glass? Like huge 1L cookie/mayo jars or something.



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[*] posted on 18-4-2004 at 06:08


There was a thread a long time ago about storing sulphuric acid in plastic bottles. Someone had tried it, and the bottle dissolved! Unfortunately, the forum software screwed the thread up, and I can't remember what the plastic was.

If you diluted the acid down to 84% concentration (i.e. to sulphuric acid monohydrate), it would probably be a lot more manageable.

Quote:
Why not use glass? Like huge 1L cookie/mayo jars or something.


Glass jars are resistant to most chemicals, but unfortunately, the metal lids are not! Even if the lid was never in direct contact with the acid, I expect that prolonged contact with the vapour would severely corrode it.




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chemoleo
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[*] posted on 18-4-2004 at 07:48


The H2SO4 I have was 96%, obtained OTC. They were stored in polypropylene bottles.
Over 2 years or so, the acid turned black, even though (thankfully) the bottles didnt dissolve.
Thinking, maybe PE is better - but it wasn't. The acid continued getting blacker.
Then I went to the local pharmacy and bought brown glass chemical bottles. They at last solved the problem. No cyrstals forming around the lid (in fact, the lid, after 3 years of exposure, is absolutely untouched - made of PP), and the glass didnt get milky on the outside.
Since then that's the container of choice, for such acids.
For HNO3 >90% I use glass stoppered bottles only.

Obviously you can't ever use metal lids, even if they are covered by some sort of plastic. After a few years they will be eaten through nonetheless.

I should mention that I still use the black H2SO4, I reckon it's just fine carbon.
Never had a problem with it either.




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[*] posted on 18-4-2004 at 08:27


HDPE should be just fine. My 98% H2SO4 (66 Bé) comes in such bottles. Yes the acid darkens by time, but as told this does by no way affect its usability.

I am not sure on this, but I think that high concentrated H2SO4 is less prone to eat plastics than H2SO4 in concentrations between 50% and 90% is - but I may be wrong on this.




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thunderfvck
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[*] posted on 19-4-2004 at 13:03


WHat about wine jars? Those are nice, amber usually. I have a nice 4 L one that's just asking me to be filled with conc. H2SO4. Lid is plastic (HDPE).



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thalium
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[*] posted on 4-11-2004 at 02:55


About glass jars: you could try to use them with a glass lid...just a idea..



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[*] posted on 4-11-2004 at 08:20


Quote:
Originally posted by thalium
About glass jars: you could try to use them with a glass lid...just a idea..


...and these matching glass lids can be purchased from where exactly? The thread was about making use of readily available containers.

Your sarcasm would be slightly more tolerable if your name was spelt correctly.




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jimwig
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[*] posted on 4-11-2004 at 10:56


there are "materials" oriented sites that list the physical and chemical properties of types of plastics, etc on the basis of resistance to degradation thus making a decision as to which type to use somewhat informed.
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thalium
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mad.gif posted on 4-11-2004 at 11:11


about my name...I don't like it anyway as it wasn't my idea and about the glass lid I just happend to see a jar like this at a local store but I actually don't think it is of some use for this...you sholud be able to find proper storage bottles and jars at shops where they sell other glassware



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thalium
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[*] posted on 4-11-2004 at 11:43


also about my name: when I made my yahoo! user I forgot to spell an L and I registered here with it because I'm not a fan of 5000 names



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[*] posted on 4-11-2004 at 12:03


It could be how much you use it. I have a 20+ year old bottle of 98% sulphuric acid ex BDH that I was going to de-rust car parts with using dibutyl thiourea as the inhibitor. Never got round to it, but the sulphuric acid is still spotless. Amber glass winchester, pp top, not sure of the seal, and kept in an outer black pp? container. The new stuff is in pp containers, they seem OK but as mentioned the acid gradually darkens. I have got some bromine that has been sealed for over 18 months in glass with a silicone backed ptfe seal + pp top, it seems OK, the seal has darkened slightly but is not brittle. Trying the same with conc nitic, 12 months OK.
mick

ptfe seals seem to be turning up regular, I found them in the top of cod liver oil bottles.
mick

[Edited on 4-11-2004 by mick]
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[*] posted on 4-11-2004 at 16:01


Here is a chemical resistance guide with different plastics and how well they work for different concentrations of sulfuric acid.

Apparently, PE is good up to 80*C.

Attachment: Chem resistance guide.pdf (19kB)
This file has been downloaded 658 times

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tom haggen
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[*] posted on 5-11-2004 at 11:44


I wrote a similar thread about this same topic a few months ago. Although, my thread was about PETE. A simple Google searched yielded the information that this plastic was incapable of storing strong acids. The reason I was inquiring about this in the first place is because when I would use HDPE for storing strong acids I could never get a good seal between the container and the lid. The reason for this is because in a lot of OTC HDPE containers the lids have these little Styrofoam like disks that keep an air tight seal. Of course those disks are not resistant to strong acid so I would always take them out losing my air tight seal. So eventually I just found a good HDPE container, and left the little disk up in the lid. As long as no acid splashes up on the lid there really isn't any problem. I've had my 90% H2SO4 in a HDPE container for months now, and although it appears to be a darker color in the container, when you pour it out in small quantities in a glass container, the acid is actually quite clear. So to answer your question HDPE is an excellent material for storing chemicals. Of course there are a few exceptions like conc. nitric acid, or hydrofluoric acid. The problem lies with having a good seal at the lid. Since HDPE tends to be somewhat flexible it makes it difficult to get a good seal. If you don't believe me, take a gallon of milk turn it upside down and squeeze that fucking thing like you are going to have a conniption if it doesn't explode. You will notice that milk will leak out of the sides of the lid.



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