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Saerynide
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Eeeee... Im not touching that 
No H2SO4 is better than no life! 
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BromicAcid
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| Quote: | | SO2Cl2 + 2H20 --> H2SO4 + 2HCl |
Sulphuryl chloride can be made by reacting SO2 with Cl2 over activated charcoal or something of that extent. When mixed with water it is the
identical overall reaction as when you bubble SO2 though water with Cl2. The overall effect in both cases is the Cl2 oxidizes the SO2. SO2Cl2 might
even be an intermediate in the reactionary scheme of things.
I also saw a reaction over at physicsforums that thunderfvck mentioned:
3H2SO3 --@150C--> 2H2SO4 + S + H2O
It was just interesting in that I had never saw it before.
Edit: Went to the library and saw some interesting information. Here is just a spiel of it. Electrolysis of monohydrated sulfur trioxide, aka 100%
H2SO4 can be accomidated to facilitate just the electroysis of water overall leading to oleum solutions. The decomposition point of ferrous sulfate
can be reduced by the addition of a small amount of magnesium sulfate and small amounts of sand for furnishing SO3. Reduction of calcium sulfate with
carbon in stoichiometric amounts leads to the formation of CO2/CO/SO2 with SO2 being almost quantitive. Sulfuric acid is formed by the action of
oxidizing agents on the polythionic acids and on the thiosulfates. F.P. van Denberg made SO3 by the electrolysis of molten CaSO4!
[Edited on 4/26/2004 by BromicAcid]
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darkflame89
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Good info there, very useful... i will just go and look up some more..
Ignis ubique latet, naturam amplectitur omnem.
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axehandle
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Is it really worth killing yourself just to get hold of H2SO4?
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darkflame89
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Nope, i am just looking for all possible different ways to make H2SO4. As the processes are small scale at home, i will have to combine several
processes at once to get the most out of it.
Ignis ubique latet, naturam amplectitur omnem.
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darkflame89
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Going back to the earlier point about adding phosphuric acid to aluminium sulphate to get sulphuric acid, can the same be done to magnesium phosphate?
That is, how soluble is magnesium phosphate in water?
Ignis ubique latet, naturam amplectitur omnem.
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thunderfvck
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www.chemfinder.com
magnesium phosphate, water solubility = 0.005 mg/ml
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axehandle
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Just my 2 Euro after a nasty incident
Gypsym calcium sulfate decomposed into SO2 at 900-ish degrees C. This could probably be harnessed and passed over a Fe2O3 catalyst, instead of
deposited in my lungs.
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darkflame89
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900 degrees!!?? This not feasible here, my parents will be freaked out..
Ignis ubique latet, naturam amplectitur omnem.
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BromicAcid
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Just make one of those at home carbon arc furnaces that I see in the older chemistry books. They have no outside indication that they operate at
ludicrously high temperatures. Take a magnesium based pot and drill two holes across from each other and insert graphite electrodes. Place them so
they are not very far apart and cement them in place. Run one wire directly to a wall socket and take the other and put a lead sinker on it. Take
another wire and put a lead sinker on that and run that one to the wall. Now take a pyrex deep dish and fill it with a saturated NaCl solution. By
varying the distance between the sinkers in the bowl you vary the power to the arc furnace. Mind you I have never attempted this but the old
chemistry book I saw claimed nails could be easily melted so decomposing CaSO4 should be a snap!
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axehandle
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Good suggestion. A more expensive but perhaps more efficient way would be to use tungsten electrodes, about 10mm apart, and create a static plasma arc
between them using an NST. That's actually something I plan to build soon: A plasma arc melting oven. No more carrying around huge heavy
dangerous propane tanks. Must find a better refractory mix though, and the W electrodes won't be easy to find. Hmm, aren't they used in
plasma arc spot welding....?
[Edited on 2004-5-2 by axehandle]
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chemoleo
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On the note of electric arcs - it is actually quite easy to do, at least on a small scale.
The main restriction is a massive transformer.
Then pretty much go ahead as bromic described. I had a 120A/42V transformer, a massive fire cement block with the chamber in the middle, and two holes
for the electrodes.
Always WEAR THICK sunglasses when doing this, the light is extremely bright, like a 500W halogen light reduced to a single small spot.
Anyway, I got the fire cement melted to a thin liquid within few seconds - even though it was 2-3 cm away from the actual arc!
Needless to say, I made some calcium carbide this way... within a few seconds.
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
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Organikum
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You dont need an transformer. A saltwater rheostat will suffice and works well.
A transformer is technically wrong anyways - you want a ballast for arc furnaces as the problem of arcs is that as soon the arc strucks the resistance
drops to near zero and this will blow any fuse. Same as with HID lamps.
Uiiii, now we found the problem with your big transformer chemoleo! The problem is:
ABUSE
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chemoleo
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Isn't 'abuse' the point of being a mad scientist?  - the
transformer was never meant to be used for melting fire cement.
I don't understand the point of your post though  -what is the problem with my
transformer? The problem I mentioned in the 'massive transformer ' thread is of a completely different nature?!?
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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darkflame89
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As transformers are not found in Singapore can I make them myself, i plan on doing one anyway as a holiday project. I have been reading up on this and
do think this is feasible? I know you all get your transformers really easy, but here.. sigh. Sometimes i regret a bit as to how Singapore was
shaped..
Anyways, the electric arc method is good. I will implement it to create a mini melting furnace.
Ignis ubique latet, naturam amplectitur omnem.
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axehandle
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MOT?
Are also microwave ovens not found in Singapore? They all contain something called an MOT (Microwave Oven Transformer), which can put out one hell of
a current.
Btw, you'll need tungsten or graphite electrodes, and an inert protection gas. Nitrogen or argon is fine.
[Edited on 2004-5-3 by axehandle]
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chemoleo
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LOL - you are telling me that transformers are not used in Singapore??? I guess you don't use electricity there... now that explains it!
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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darkflame89
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WE do use transformers, is just that i am a amateur, i do not know the in and outs of all electrical equipment, and my movements are limited by my
parents
edit: I found this!: http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/article/0,12543,611070,...
[Edited on 4-5-2004 by darkflame89]
Ignis ubique latet, naturam amplectitur omnem.
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darkflame89
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What is saltwarer rheostat? I mean it just boils the salt water solution, doesn't it? How high temp. can it reach?
edit: sorry did not read too properly, i having a Biology test tomorrow. So, the salt water rheostat is used to regulate the current for the arc
method described.
[Edited on 7-5-2004 by darkflame89]
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axehandle
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A salt water rheostat is a variable resistor consisting of two electrodes submerged in salt water. The resistance increases in proportion to the
electrode interdistance. I think the brine will get quite hot and boil, I've never tried this myself, but boiled-off water should be possible to
replace easily by adding tap water.
But be careful, OK? I don't mean to flame, but you don't seem to have much experience with electronics, and wall outlet AC can kill you of
you treat it with disrespect.
PS: "brine" == "saturated NaCl(aq) solution"
[Edited on 2004-5-7 by axehandle]
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darkflame89
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Yah, i understand that.. I don't know much about stuff like this..sigh..i need a full course on elctrical stuff..
Of course i will not plug straight to the wall plug w/o prior knowledge,
[Edited on 8-5-2004 by darkflame89]
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acx01b
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lol
so many wrong things i saw..
sorry but h3po4 is not a strong acid
the reactions to make h2so4 from so2:
you need a catalyst (v2o5) and high temperatures to make concentrated acid (dried acid, 100%),
you cannot make concentrated acid from so2 + i2 + h2o
you cannot make concentrated acid from h2s + i2 + h2o
you cannot make concentrated acid from so2 + io3 + h2o
you can make something ph = 1 but not less.
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axehandle
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| Quote: |
lol
so many wrong things i saw..
sorry but h3po4 is not a strong acid
the reactions to make h2so4 from so2:
you need a catalyst (v2o5) and high temperatures to make concentrated acid (dried acid, 100%),
you cannot make concentrated acid from so2 + i2 + h2o
you cannot make concentrated acid from h2s + i2 + h2o
you cannot make concentrated acid from so2 + io3 + h2o
you can make something ph = 1 but not less.
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Ouch, my eyes! Please capitalize properly. Your point may be valid, but something like "i2" just sticks needles into everyones eyes....
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darkflame89
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The resultant acid might not be concentrated, but you can always concentrate it by various ways like electrolysis.
Ignis ubique latet, naturam amplectitur omnem.
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acx01b
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from acid ph=0.5 or something u got ph=0 ?
and from h2so4.10 h2o you can get dried or 1h2o h2so4 ???
plleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeee explain more
graphite electrodes? (i have :-)
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