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Author: Subject: Sodium oxide preparation?
vampirexevipex
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[*] posted on 4-3-2012 at 16:58
Sodium oxide preparation?


I just want to make some sodium oxide, i heard that i can be made by using a 6v or 9v battery but i dont know what process. And what type of NaCl, iodized or the regular that sea salt? Thank you.
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weiming1998
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[*] posted on 4-3-2012 at 17:04


Electrolysis of a solution of NaCl is never going to get you Na2O, except when you melt the NaCl and pass a high current through it in air. When you separate the anode and cathode, you get NaOH, not Na2O. It doesn't really matter what type of salt, as iodized salt contains only very little iodine.
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[*] posted on 4-3-2012 at 17:12


Thanks but... instead of NaOH i need pure Na2O in solid form. So there's another way?
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m1tanker78
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[*] posted on 4-3-2012 at 17:16


A 6 or 9V battery won't get you there. :(

Burning sodium in air yields a mixture of sodium oxide and sodium peroxide. That's probably as close as you can get if you can get hold of some sodium (metal).

FWIW, canning/pickling salt is probably the purest off-the-shelf form of NaCl you can find. It costs about the same as iodized and yields very pure Na if you have a functional Downs Cell or similar. Even a large 12V car battery will poop out before you collect any decent amount of Na - if any at all. You need a hefty DC welder or heavy duty DC power supply.

Tank




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vampirexevipex
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[*] posted on 4-3-2012 at 17:22


ok thanks! :P
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Hexavalent
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[*] posted on 5-3-2012 at 10:37


Small amounts of sodium can be bought from eBay, or places like galliumsource.com or United Nuclear I believe.



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bfesser
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[*] posted on 5-3-2012 at 10:45


Please <a href="http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/search.php?token=&srchtxt=sodium+oxide&srchfield=subject&srchuname=&f[]=all&srchfrom=0&am p;filter_distinct=yes&searchsubmit=Search">search</a> the forum before starting new threads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqEWUw6sgpA

[Edited on 3/5/12 by bfesser]




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woelen
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[*] posted on 5-3-2012 at 12:12


Sodium oxide is very hard to obtain, nearly impossible for an amateur. Sodium peroxide is somewhat easier to obtain, but still, this is not easy to find. Making the oxide from sodium also is very hard, because it will be heavily contaminated with peroxide, even when the sodium is burned in a shortage of oxygen and possibly also some hydroxide.

For what do you need Na2O? Tell a little more about the process and maybe someone comes up with an alternative way to solve your problem.



[Edited on 5-3-12 by woelen]




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[*] posted on 5-3-2012 at 12:15


2NaNO3 -->heat --> 2NaOH + NO2... seems will not work
NaOH --> heat --> seems will not work aswell

sorry folks, there is no hydrogen for the nitrate decomposition

[Edited on 3-6-2012 by Poppy]
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[*] posted on 5-3-2012 at 13:10


Here might be an interesting way to make sodium oxide,
by the thermal decomposition of sodium iodate.

"It has been stated that iodine is also formed besides oxygen during the thermal decomposition of sodium iodate. The following two reactions take place up to a...
Thermoanalytical properties of analytical grade reagents: V. Sodium halates

"At ambient temperatures (0–20 °C), O2 reacts with a dilute (0.1–5.0 mole percent) sodium amalgam. It may also be produced by passing ozone gas over solid sodium iodide inside a platinum or palladium tube. The ozone oxidizes the sodium to form sodium peroxide. The iodine is freed into iodine crystals, which can be sublimed by mild heating. The platinum or palladium catalyzes the reaction" (from wikipedia entry)
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[*] posted on 5-3-2012 at 15:36


You're trying too hard. I doubt the guy even knows there are different oxides of sodium.



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vmelkon
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[*] posted on 6-3-2012 at 06:03


Quote: Originally posted by Poppy  
2NaNO3 -->heat --> 2NaOH + NO2... seems will not work
NaOH --> heat --> seems will not work aswell

sorry folks, there is no hydrogen for the nitrate decomposition

[Edited on 3-6-2012 by Poppy]


NaNO3 probably behaves as KNO3 and in my experience, heating KNO3 just melts it and it slowly decomposes
2 KNO3 -> 2 KNO2 + O2

and KNO2 remains molten along with the KNO3. The decomp is slow. KNO2 will in turn decomp as well but it is slow as well.

2 KNO2 -> K2O + NO + NO2

Heating NaOH won't work as well. It is a pretty stable molecule.

The only options so far is to buy sodium or to prepare sodium by electrolysis and the other process with iodate and ozone someone mentioned above.

Take your pick :)
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[*] posted on 6-3-2012 at 06:13


Quote: Originally posted by Endimion17  
You're trying too hard. I doubt the guy even knows there are different oxides of sodium.


Exactomundo.

He probably thinks of sodium oxide as he thinks of say... iron oxide.

Na2O is hard to obtain and about as useful to fitting wheels to a tomato. Of course there will be the usual armchair chemists here coming up with 'theoretical' ideas. AJKOER's probably dreaming of getting bleach involved!

'Go buy some NaOH and do some simple but interesting experiments' is my advice... Take it: it's FREE!




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[*] posted on 6-3-2012 at 07:00


Is it true that molten sodium hydroxide can be reacted with sodium metal to form sodium oxide?



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woelen
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[*] posted on 6-3-2012 at 10:36


I don't think so. One way of making sodium metal is electrolysing molten NaOH. First some hydrogen is formed, as long as there still is some water in the (very hygroscopic) NaOH, but soon this stops and sodium is produced at the cathode.



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[*] posted on 7-3-2012 at 02:59


Quote:

From fused sodium hydroxide to which excess of sodium has been added, small quantities of hydrogen are evolved along with oxygen at the anode, proving water has been formed there.

Free sodium absorbs part of the hydrogen, forming the hydride.


I am not certain whether molten sodium would react with fused NaOH. Although fused NaOH will react with many other metals, such as Al, it may be likely that it does not react with more elemental sodium because Na2O is extremely basic, and thus its formation is not favorable. For the same reason, molten Na does not react with N2 under normal conditions.

[Edited on 7-3-2012 by AndersHoveland]
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weiming1998
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[*] posted on 11-3-2012 at 04:50


I just remembered an idea; use an electric furnace to heat Na2CO3 up to high temperatures in an inert environment. You could get pure Na2O without the Na2O2 and NaO2 contaminants.
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[*] posted on 11-3-2012 at 05:31


^^good luck with that. :D



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weiming1998
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[*] posted on 11-3-2012 at 05:36


I'm not going to make Na2O; I don't even have an electric furnace in the first place! Just a suggestion for the author of this thread.
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Endimion17
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[*] posted on 11-3-2012 at 06:13


I know. Just saying...
It would require special crucibles and an oxyacetylene torch. Sodium carbonate is one tough cookie.




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[*] posted on 11-3-2012 at 09:27


... from my favorite "Peroxides, Superoxides, and Ozonides of the Alkali and Alkaline Earth Metals" by the late great Vol'nov

Quote:
Sodium peroxide is obtained by oxidizing metallic sodium in a stream of dry CO<sub>2</sub> free air or oxygen enriched air at a reaction temperature of about 300-400°C.


So, first make the sodium peroxide which can be brought to completion. Then reduce it:

2Na + Na<sub>2</sub>O<sub>2</sub> ---> 2Na<sub>2</sub>O

Quote:
The reduction is carried out at 130-200°C using additions of metallic sodium (in the amount 1-10 wt.% sodium peroxide) in an inert atmosphere containing water vapor. The quantity of water vapor is approximately 0.03-1.3% of the sodium weight.


Vol'nov is the man when it comes to these types of things. Doesn't anyone use real references anymore? It actually seems doable in a home lab as well.




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