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Author: Subject: Oh yeah, no reason to be paranoid...
neptunium
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[*] posted on 20-3-2012 at 13:40


i remember watching a show a few years ago , they were telling people that within a few years your fridge could tell you when you getting low on milk , your microwave could have a screen with cooking sudgestions etc...
our TV's are already doing all kinds of "smart" things eversince tivo...

To me it looks like we are getting dumber and dumber and worse! we let it happen!

so it should be no suprise that some big 3 letters agency wants to use this to their advantages ! we wont see it coming because we dont use our brain anymore.
we are being flooded and overwelmed by dumb entertainement ,frivolous lawsuit, ridiculous infomercials etc..... its getting harder to pick out the real worthy news .

its a cheap circus trick !
look at this hand while i steal your wallet with the other!

we are getting too dumb, entitle to free stuff, numb and assisted, to recognised any real danger.

we refuse to work hard like our ancestors did and we discourage curiosity and education !

Dont take my word for it! look arround and make up your own mind...if you still have one!








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IrC
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[*] posted on 23-3-2012 at 02:20


Quote: Originally posted by GreenD  
I heard this too, they are putting extremely cheap chips that can access the internet somehow, and track everything you do. What channels you watch, whether your toaster is up or down. When you open the fridge, etc. I don't know how exactly this works - since you'd need some kind of wi-fi in your appliances, and then a network for them to hook up into?

This country is "...for the companies, by the companies"



They already have a connection between all appliances. The AC power line. Decades old technology. In 1970 in high school I started studying bells and clocks in the school. I was curious that clocks appeared to reset to correct time errors at least once every few days. Puzzled over the fact their only connection was the AC power line I began studying things. Easy since my 11th grade year I had an electronics class the last 3 hours each day. At my bench I had scopes, and an outlet, and capacitors to isolate the 60 HZ power. I noticed a waveform impressed on the 60 cycle power just as clocks reset and also when all the bells rang. You guessed it, before the year was over I fired up the going home bell 3 times, an hour early and twice 30 minutes early. Great fun in a school of over 3,000, everyone would all get up thinking it was time to go home. Depressing when teachers and other officials corralled them all back to class but a few of us escaped. Guessing from the heated conversations between the principle and electronics teacher they had correctly assumed it was coming from our class. But nobody could prove it and none even knew which student to suspect. I only did it on the 3 days that year the teach was out for medical reasons and we had a substitute who did not understand electronics. Our real teacher would have figured me out real fast. But I was not stupid I had already figured out when I could get away with it. Complex computers were pretty non existent in 1970 which simplified taking control, as it was just a series of DTMF tones spaced in a certain way which controlled all clocks and bells school wide. I did alter the clocks dozens of times as various students wanted to see me change them but it always worked against us as they only set back not forward. The system was very primitive but interesting. Bottom line is talking over the power lines is simple, a couple 250 volt 0.1 uF caps gave an easy connection between hot and neutral to send anything from audio to RF. I used 0.1 uF for all audio and around 0.01 uF to send RF, or around that capacitance range anyway. Very high up agencies in the government have equipment which can read your entire hard drive down the AC power line. Don't ask me how I am sure it is very high tech gear but I assure you they can do it. My guess is they have to be on the same side of the pole transformer as the target, easy to do if they rent a place next door or close, or at least have power company uniformed people who can connect to the 240V bushings on their targets power transformer. Just my guess as to how they are not blocked by the inductance of the pole transformers. Of course they could send data slower, say with a 90 KHZ carrier, which is how power companies control substation switch gear from their main control facility. If so then I guess the spy could be further away. I doubt it since they could not isolate one target computer from another *** and likely every house in a neighborhood has a computer. Believe me this technology is real and they already use it. I suppose they could plug a box into one of your outside outlets or light fixtures, so if you ever notice an outside light out and a mysterious van parked nearby look out. Bottom line is gaining information from your appliances over power lines is quite simple. Knowing what and who only requires a unique identifying number stored inside in data. If you hate big brother as I do then do not buy new appliances with anything other than cash, and do not fill out and mail in the warranty card with your name and address on it.

Some of you will likely think I'm dreaming about the reading hard drives over the AC line, your loss if so the technology is already in use.

*** unless of course this was the reason for unique serial numbers being placed inside the main processor chips, again a technology already in use.




"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
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watson.fawkes
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[*] posted on 23-3-2012 at 04:46


Quote: Originally posted by IrC  
Very high up agencies in the government have equipment which can read your entire hard drive down the AC power line. Don't ask me how I am sure it is very high tech gear but I assure you they can do it. [...] Believe me this technology is real and they already use it.
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. It's wasting my breath to ask for a citation, but for the benefit of everyone else, I'll point out this is utterly unsubstantiated.

I've seen some paranoia here before, but this one tops them all. Unfortunately, that's quite saying something.
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IrC
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[*] posted on 23-3-2012 at 20:38


Quote: Originally posted by watson.fawkes  
Quote: Originally posted by IrC  
Very high up agencies in the government have equipment which can read your entire hard drive down the AC power line. Don't ask me how I am sure it is very high tech gear but I assure you they can do it. [...] Believe me this technology is real and they already use it.
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. It's wasting my breath to ask for a citation, but for the benefit of everyone else, I'll point out this is utterly unsubstantiated.

I've seen some paranoia here before, but this one tops them all. Unfortunately, that's quite saying something.


A real science inclined, open minded person would show how it is impossible, after all the word bullshit is within the reasoning skills of a 5 year old. Was this the best refutation you could provide? Is this an example of the keen inner workings of your analytical mind?

Just where do you expect to find public citations available for classified work? Surely your refutation could exceed the skills of a small child? Or am I wrong in this. I can see why I decided not to spend much time here anymore, seeing as how you expect all to perceive you as one of the brighter sparks who post here. If you are one of the best I am worried about all the rest. Seriously. I can tell you I have lifelong friends who work in various agencies which will remain un-named and I am merely mentioning things I have been told in conversations.

There is a reason for Tempest shielding, and it is not just worries about monitor radiation. If you had the equipment you would be able to see the data flowing in your computer is screaming fairly loudly all throughout the room, and it is within our technical capabilities to decode RF traveling common mode down every wire connected to a computer. Does not take an impossible amount of computing power to separate these bursts of energy as in ignoring monitor and switch mode power supply emissions and grabbing the data. My only question to one in particular was how did they command the drive to read. The reply was disclosure agreements will not allow me to explain, but consider viruses combined with a push almost 20 years ago by the DOD to award whichever entity who could come up with methods of broadcasting virus programs into enemy computers. Actually quite old technology from today's perspective. But then again you know everything so who am I to argue.

The tirade of a three year old would have sounded nearly identical to the one you posted towards me in your supposed refutation of my words. Hopefully this site has not completely gone down the toilet and someone here with knowledge and wisdom can do a better job calling bullshit on my words.

Personally I am sick of the childish ways in which you people choose to argue with others.


I think for the sake of any here who truly quest for knowledge I will leave you all with this bit of wisdom. The true measure of brilliance is when you know enough to understand you know almost nothing. This is diametrically opposite to you Watson Fawkes, you are still at that stage where you believe you know all and nothing can exist outside of the knowledge you have accumulated combined with your ability to understand.




[Edited on 3-24-2012 by IrC]




"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
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[*] posted on 23-3-2012 at 22:39


Irc,

Your argument is unconvincing because you do not provide details,
but spend more time addressing someone's incredulity (derisively, I add),
then go on to cite vague and unverifiable authorities. These
tactics only hurt your credibility on a putative science forum.

Eventually only the indifferent, the unknowing, and the insincere will respond to you.



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watson.fawkes
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[*] posted on 24-3-2012 at 06:25


Quote: Originally posted by IrC  
Personally I am sick of the childish ways in which you people choose to argue with others.
I wasn't arguing with you. I was warning others away from you.

Attempting to have a discussion with you is an utter waste of time, in my experience.
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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 26-3-2012 at 10:42




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[*] posted on 28-3-2012 at 09:54


Anyone with an interest in the Legal Right of Privacy should read this (perhaps more than once).

Attachment: Privacy Law in the USA.pdf (79kB)
This file has been downloaded 1140 times

Here is Senate Bill dealing with explosive devices (& chem weps) within the internet. VERY interesting reading. However one must set out to provide "bomb-making" information for illegal activities involving terrorist activities (which this discussion Forum does NOT do and has written rules against such documentation!
Remember, "NO Practical Use" in discussions in Energetics or any other Forum thus differing.


This material is well documented and should set MOST people's mind at rest. There are Constitutional Protections regarding reading and speech; yet there does now exist a line that should not be crossed. This is also known as the "Feinstein Bill"; some of which is annotated. Some of which is also being challenged. There ARE Supreme Court challenges and ATF protections (yes, ATF!) for research, inventions and hobby pyrotechnics.
This is due because some pyro materials are on the "ATF List" & are NOT designed to cause harm. There is a great deal of important material here that should be well understood. The gov't does not want people to harm one another but learning about subjects has very limited restrictions.
People have asked "didn't WikiLeaks" get shut down; infringing on the First Amendment"? In the Bills that have been passed and those amended, we can see the difference (whether we believe in the logic or not).



Attachment: 1st_and_SENATE-BILL.pdf (219kB)
This file has been downloaded 1031 times



[Edited on 29-3-2012 by quicksilver]




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[*] posted on 29-3-2012 at 02:54


interesting files, quick
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[*] posted on 2-4-2012 at 07:51


interesting :)

its not possible to use AC to & anything that goes through a filter like the caps and ferromagnetic
sheild that is in a power supply thought to cmos logic chips.

but believe what you will.

as for recording all phone internet and data calls well its been a political battle in the UK for years.
of course the most dodgy of dodgy governments has been doing this with there so called dot com
and at&t and there visa master card setups.

but then again needle in a haystack lack of man power and over all funding.

knowing is different to acting.

acting costs money even finding from the weath of data costs money.

then we have crypto afterwards and so many use it.

so find then decrypt. anything over 13 characters and 256 bit would take a 164 cpu machine over 6 months
to break and I mean well over 6 months.

cheapest I can find that service for (remember your using all of that super computer not some of its services)

is close on 3 million dollars.

thats only 256 bit and 13 characters and it all factors into powers as you go up in bits and characters.

26 characters with a 96 bit key then 2048 crypto and well kiss ya worries goodbye.

why the fear we have ssl and tor.

track that two keys all over 3 mill domestic to break. (maby 500K for those who own there own super kit)

how many users ?????

times buy half a mil.





e3500 console login: root
bash-2.05#

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[*] posted on 16-4-2012 at 23:35


Do not post any more propaganda leaflets here. They will be again removed on sight (you can call this censorship if you very much like that term!). There is no need to transform this thread into a garbage bin for ideological crap. This is an international and science forum and ideological fights relevant only for one single country definitively have no relevance for the forum community.
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[*] posted on 20-4-2012 at 15:53
W O W !


View all four parts

www.zerohedge.com/news/nsa-whistleblower-speaks-live-government-lying-you

___________________________

It just goes on and on, we have been at war now for
over a decade, this could never be during peace time.

www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-16-20/pentagon-smears-usa-today-reporters-investigating-%E2%80%A6-wait-it-%E2%80%A6-illegal-pentago
.

[Edited on 21-4-2012 by franklyn]
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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 20-4-2012 at 16:49


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/nsa-whistleblower-speaks-live-...

I cleaned up the embedded players which are stuck at thumbnail size with no control bar at the page above

Part 1
<iframe sandbox width="560" height="315" src="http://www.democracynow.org/embed/story/2012/4/20/exclusive_national_security_agency_whistleblower_william" frameborder="0"></iframe>
Part 2
<iframe sandbox width="560" height="315" src="http://www.democracynow.org/embed/story/2012/4/20/detained_in_the_us_filmmaker_laura" frameborder="0"></iframe>
Part 3
<iframe sandbox width="560" height="315" src="http://www.democracynow.org/embed/story/2012/4/20/we_do_not_live_in_a" frameborder="0"></iframe>
Part 4
<iframe sandbox width="560" height="315" src="http://www.democracynow.org/embed/story/2012/4/20/whistleblower_the_nsa_is_lying_us" frameborder="0"></iframe>

[Edited on 21-4-2012 by Rosco Bodine]
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[*] posted on 20-4-2012 at 20:03


I am liking all the posts that Rosco Bodine is making in this thread.

But just one little comment about Orwell. His criticism of nationalism was understandable. However, I am a supporter of nationalism. But I think perhaps my nationalism is of a different type than the one he was referring to: Nationalism of the type that has complete disregard for other nations, and has no problem monopolising and oppressively enforcing its sphere of influence.

[Edited on 21-4-2012 by AndersHoveland]
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[*] posted on 21-4-2012 at 07:24


@ IrC

While this is well developed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_line_communication it requires extensive retrofit
to a PC to enable eavesdropping. Presumably this would be done clandestinely when
you are away. The power supply must be by passed and connection to a bus made.
A big obstacle is if the unit is plugged into an uninterruptible power supply, as that
would need to be bypassed also.

Much more feasible for remote monitoring is Van Eck phreaking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Eck_phreaking
To effectuate command / control of your machine still requires a receiving channel
such as ethernet / internet cable or wi-fi. To compromise a PC at will requires some
trojan to be installed somewhere, it need not be on your hard drive at all and can
be on a chip such as your bios. This would be outwardly indistinguishable from the
original and would display the same but would have hidden function acessible only
when activated by the eavesdropper.

Closely related to this is if such hidden functionality is built into the control board
of a hard drive. This circumvents the assumption that the drive is clean, when a
drive's disk is scanned for "hidden" partitions containing a trojan in the excluded
mapped areas of the low level format and none are found.


My knowledge of surreptitious surveillance extends well before PC's existed and
computers were known then as electronic data processors. There were individuals
who foresaw what was to come, notably Donn Parker who authored the seminal
overview of the problem titled Crime by Computer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donn_B._Parker
Electronic data security as a professional specialty did not yet exist, and not until
later did professional organizations certify for it. Private sector networking of
security professionals provides timely notification of new threat scenarios.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUszNem9G5U
www.youtube.com/watch?v=94ZFYcihRF8


@ watson.fawkes

While technically overstated IrC is right about one thing, it is individuals with your
hubris and unfounded confidence in your omniscience that gave us memorable
events such as the Titanic and Chernobyl.

.
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[*] posted on 21-4-2012 at 22:51


Rather than being concerned about how much big brother monitors our communications, I think it is more important to be watchful for violations of
"due process of law" in general. It would be easier for an evil state to
simply fabricate false evidence than to go though the effort of decrypting
a bunch of internet traffic. How hard would it be for the CIA
to put bogus transactions on your Visa card? Or if they really wanted
you gone, just arrange an accident rather than a messy trial.

Fortunately, locking up productive (i.e. tax paying) citizens who pose no risk does not make sense. What is more of a risk to our freedom would be greater reliance on
fines, confiscation of personal property etc. Isolated individuals with shaky backgrounds would be the likely targets.

When I was a student, one of the my projects was to analyze a switching powersupply
for an encryption computer to see how much coded information could leak back from
the output to the input. If the coded information is on a distinct frequency it is very
easy to pick it up, even thought there are many filters and noise sources "in the way". As mentioned in the previous post the CRT or LCD signals make good targets.
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watson.fawkes
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[*] posted on 22-4-2012 at 07:12


Quote: Originally posted by gregxy  
When I was a student, one of the my projects was to analyze a switching powersupply
for an encryption computer to see how much coded information could leak back from
the output to the input. If the coded information is on a distinct frequency it is very
easy to pick it up, even thought there are many filters and noise sources "in the way". As mentioned in the previous post the CRT or LCD signals make good targets.
Two questions: 1) Where was the top frequency rolloff? 2) Did you test demodulation, or just frequency response?
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[*] posted on 22-4-2012 at 14:05


This was 30 years ago so I don't remember much. I know the designers wanted
something like 100db of of isolation from output to input and all that we looked at was frequency response.

Demodulation would be quite a challenge since a computer will have millions
of signals switching based on the same clock. From a CRT it should not be
too difficult since there are 3 (RGB) relatively high voltage signals driving the tube
that you could pick up. For the LCD, there are thousands switching together,
if you picked up that signal I don't know how you would separate them to make
sense of it.

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[*] posted on 22-4-2012 at 17:18



On a slight derailment..........

The American embassy is Moscow was very concerned/paranoid, back in the good old days of the cold war, about the opposion reading each and every detail that was typed on their golf ball type writers. They had visions of the Russions beaming radar signals in through the walls onto the golf ball and analyzing the result to read the text being typed.
Of course it was not happening.

Dann2
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[*] posted on 22-4-2012 at 18:11


Quote: Originally posted by dann2  

On a slight derailment..........

The American embassy is Moscow was very concerned/paranoid, back in the good old days of the cold war, about the opposion reading each and every detail that was typed on their golf ball type writers. They had visions of the Russions beaming radar signals in through the walls onto the golf ball and analyzing the result to read the text being typed.
Of course it was not happening.

Dann2


The story that I remember on that one was that they could analyze the signature of current pulses coming from the motor that positioned the ball to determine what was typed, which sounds plausable. The Russians were also supposed to have given the American embassy a wall hanging that contained a passive RF resonator that would change frequency depending on the sound in the room. Very clever since it emitted no signal which made it hard to detect, but the Russians could query it with RF to listen in on the conversation in the room. The other trick is to bounce a laser off the
windows of a room to listen to what is being said inside.

I wonder how secure cellphones are? There were stories that they could be programmed to easedrop. And of course they continually track the position of
their owners. (Better wrap your tin-foil hat around your cellphone).

Financial transactions are now more tightly monitored. PayPal must be linked
to a bank account and the refillable visa gift cards require a SS #.
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[*] posted on 22-4-2012 at 20:15


Quote: Originally posted by gregxy  
I know the designers wanted
something like 100db of of isolation from output to input and all that we looked at was frequency response.
Designers of protection system are paranoid by nature, and not without cause. It would be quite a feat to be able to read anything much with a compensated probe on the +5 V supply rail, much less after passing backward through a power supply. Nevertheless, 100 dB of reduction is a kind of typical for TEMPEST specifications, because they worry about unknown advances made by the opponent. It's only money to put all that extra effort in, after all.

My real point, though, is that it's a mistake to confuse specifications for protection mechanisms with capabilities of eavesdroppers. (Not that you did, but others seem to.)
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[*] posted on 26-4-2012 at 15:50


<iframe sandbox width="622" height="350" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7SGWH3kirzg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Just another brick in the wall ........

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[*] posted on 26-4-2012 at 16:27


C'mon, Roscoe, that dude is a quack of the highest order. FN fired him, unsure why he keeps coming back...

http://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/ready-occupy-what-you-n...

http://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/how-big-deal-hr-347-cri...

ACLU is more serious about freedom than anyone, and they actually read the law.




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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 26-4-2012 at 17:00


Napolitano is no quack and he was not fired. Go to the Fox website and you will see he is still there and has appeared many times since the time he was reportedly fired.
Here is an article posted by Andrew Napolitano at Fox News today. Freedom Watch was cancelled because Napolitano was telling Americans and the world more truth than the propagandists at Fox News wanted the people to hear.
Like much the same as is Ron Paul, Andrew Napolitano happens to be for real a straight arrow that doesn't fit discretely or inconspicuously well mingled amongst a quiver so full of such crooked shticks as the likes of O'Reilly who appears to be the dufus honcho there....unfortunately.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/04/26/social-security-ii...

What Napolitano says is likely more reliable than anything that will ever be reported by the ACLU which seems too often on the wrong side of issues. Sometimes the ACLU gets it right .....but too often they don't and they are very curiously, suspiciously selective about what things in which they choose to become involved, clearly being more selective about general political social aims than about bona fide constitutional issues involving any individual. ACLU gets involved when they perceive a politically popular class action lawsuit. ACLU stays conspicuously clear of criminal law issues and shows great preference for civil lawsuits which have questionable motivation.

<iframe sandbox width="622" height="350" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fOaCemmsnNk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://americanfreepress.net/?p=2841

By Pat Shannan

Was a popular television talk show host and former New Jersey judge kicked off Fox News because he went too far in disclosing facts about FBI setups and warmongering intrigues on the part of the U.S. establishment—key issues that AMERICAN FREE PRESS has been covering since its founding in 2001?

In recent days, former New Jersey Superior Court Judge Andrew Napolitano had been drifting dangerously close to the exit doors by providing the American people with simply too much truth. The first week of February he was abruptly canceled from the airwaves due to low ratings, Fox executives claimed.

Napolitano repeatedly opened his show with the question, “Can the federal government take credit for solving a plot of its own creation?”

Focusing on FBI claims that since 9-11 it has foiled multiple alleged terrorist plots to kill Americans, Napolitano pointed out that while there were some 20 such incidents, three were interrupted by private citizens who observed suspicious activity. But the remaining 17 that were “solved” by the feds all had a common and reprehensible thread: They were planned, plotted, controlled and carried out by the federal government itself.

Not unlike the 1993 first attack on the World Trade Center, the FBI had agents or informants befriend young Muslim men by luring them into cooperation with encouragement about being “like-minded” and anti-American. Then, of course, they were arrested before any damage could be done—followed by great hoopla the next day.

Napolitano also tackled Israel’s prime role in promoting a United States war against Iran, and this may have been the final straw for those signing his paycheck. The judge’s final guest and source of information was Michael Scheuer, the former chief of the CIA’s Osama bin Laden-watching unit.

While Scheuer accepts the U.S. government claim that bin Laden was the architect of 9-11, a point many researchers reject, he is a courageous critic of Israel and its U.S. lobby and, as Napolitano’s guest, pointed out that a war against Iran benefits Israel and Saudi Arabia but not the United States.

[Edited on 27-4-2012 by Rosco Bodine]
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[*] posted on 5-5-2012 at 16:11


On top of all of this: CISPA. It passed on April 26 2012. It allows the government to infringe on our privacy by logging every thing we do on the Internet. But don't take my word for it, read these:

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120426/14505718671/insani...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CISPA
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