smeesh
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nitration of cellulose?
lets say i had some nitric acid (between 50-60% con)
if i dropped some cotton in there and waited, i dont assume it would yield nitrocellulose.
without the use of sulfuric acid, how could i nitrate the cotton?
would heating help? perhaps only exposing the cotton to the nitric acid vapor?
are there any desiccant materials i could use to increase the acids concentration before i add my cellulose?
thank ya sirs and mams.
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Adas
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H2SO4 works well, if you want to remove even more water, add MgSO4 (anhydrous)
Rest In Pieces!
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VladimirLem
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that wouldn't work...i made some with 65%HNO3 -AND- 94<% H2SO4 and that was really shitty "quality"...it burned fast, but waaay slowlyer than using
HOKO HNO3...
that was really low nitrated stuff, so i guess without the H2SO4 it will be wasting your HNO3
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smeesh
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thats what ive heard and read from most people and sources ive checked out.
i have only a basic knowledge of the mechanics involved in chemistry, but i do know some of the basic principles.
ive heard that the sulfuric acid is a catalyst for the reaction that creates the nitronium ion. if thats true, it seemed logical that one could
replace a catalyst with other sources of activation energy like heat. and yes, i know that heating nitric acid is generally a bad idea. but i gotta do
what i gotta do!...jk.
the only other purpose i know of that the sulfuric acid serves is to get rid of H20 in the solution. it is for this reason that i mentioned desiccant
materials.
again...ill put a disclaimer on this. im into mechanical engineering much more than chemistry.
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Bot0nist
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Just get some rooto drain opener at the hardware store. Even if it is dirty as shit, it will work in a cellulose nitrate synthesis.
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
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SB15
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H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4 (aq)</sub> protonates the nitric acid, forming electrophillic nitronium ions which attack the
nucleophillic oxygen in cellulose and create the ester.
C<sub>6</sub>H<sub>10</sub>O<sub>5</sub> + 3HNO<sub>3 (aq)</sub> ->
C<sub>6</sub>H<sub>7</sub>O<sub>2</sub>(ONO<sub>2</sub> <sub>3</sub> + 3H<sub>2</sub>O (trinitrate)
Without a catalyst, the equilibrium strongly favours the left side, and cellulose trinitrate will not form.
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smeesh
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thats unfortunate.
perhaps ill just use ye old sulfuric acid.
im a bit of a strange one in that i dont like to use chemicals that i cant synthesize myself with "renewable" materials. im working on a birkeland
eyde reactor with some success to produce the nitric acid.
the sulfuric acid is a bit more complicated...and i cant pull it out of thin air. also, other than bubbling sulfur dioxide through water i dont know
of anyways to make the acid without sulfur or compounds that contain sulfur.
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Adas
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Quote: Originally posted by smeesh  | thats unfortunate.
perhaps ill just use ye old sulfuric acid.
im a bit of a strange one in that i dont like to use chemicals that i cant synthesize myself with "renewable" materials. im working on a birkeland
eyde reactor with some success to produce the nitric acid.
the sulfuric acid is a bit more complicated...and i cant pull it out of thin air. also, other than bubbling sulfur dioxide through water i dont know
of anyways to make the acid without sulfur or compounds that contain sulfur. |
Make ozone generator and blow the ozone on sulfur, and collect the gasses into a little water. (Too expensive in the means of electricity, but works).
Rest In Pieces!
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Pulverulescent
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| Quote: Originally posted by Adas | | Quote: Originally posted by smeesh | thats unfortunate.
perhaps ill just use ye old sulfuric acid.
im a bit of a strange one in that i dont like to use chemicals that i cant synthesize myself with "renewable" materials. im working on a birkeland
eyde reactor with some success to produce the nitric acid.
the sulfuric acid is a bit more complicated...and i cant pull it out of thin air. also, other than bubbling sulfur dioxide through water i dont know
of anyways to make the acid without sulfur or compounds that contain sulfur. |
Make ozone generator and blow the ozone on sulfur, and collect the gasses into a little water. (Too expensive in the means of electricity, but works).
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Finding clear draincleaner and a nitrate whose sulphate salt is soluble is so much easier than fucking around with inefficient, high voltage
apparatuses!
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"
A Einstein
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annaandherdad
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video on nitrocelluose
See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldPHzCnRYos
Any other SF Bay chemists?
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Vikascoder
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i tried making nitrocellulose without h2so4 but the nitric acid eat away my nitrocellulose like a pest eat crops . it was just a failure and waste of
my70% nitric acid . watch nurdrage video on youtube for making sulfuric acid
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